Well, I did the unimaginable...I let 10 mo. old DD
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I can't help but wonder if you come here just for the drama. Why would you post that on a NFL/AP forum. I'm seriously confused. Do you want a pat on the back? A long thread of people bashing you? I have never interacted with you on a thread before, but I must just say I am sickened by your post, as I have been by some in the past.
Well, I didn't think I would get in trouble with this post, and I am sorry that I sickened you. I have come in here for 10 months asking for help, and I have done everything everyone has suggested. But after not having sleep for literally 10 months, I was at the end of my rope. I am sorry. Guess I shouldn't have come in here to say I let her CIO, but I did, and she fell asleep.
I don't know that you will get "in trouble" so to speak. I just thought that by coming to mothering I wouldn't run across posts about people letting their children CIO.
I hope you find another way to help your Dd get to sleep. As a parent we aren't entitled to our children taking a certain numer or length of naps. I think you had a choice to have a whiney tired baby and you suffer with that or let her suffer alone, crying for 15 minutes.
I hope you find another way to help your Dd get to sleep. As a parent we aren't entitled to our children taking a certain numer or length of naps. I think you had a choice to have a whiney tired baby and you suffer with that or let her suffer alone, crying for 15 minutes.
I always question everything I post. By nature, I am a caring person who doesn't like to hurt other people's feelings. I DO feel sick when I think of a baby crying it out - so I was being truthful in that. I also feel for you, and I hope I didn't hurt your feelings.
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have you red the no cry solution. that book really helped me
Well, I missed the OP so I can't really comment, except that I am disappointed to see that someone felt they needed to delete a post here. I appreciate free discourse here and I don't think for one moment that CIO is somehow a taboo subject. I think someone can use CIO for whatever reason and still be an attached or "natural family living" parent. I find it offensive that there are criteria, apparently, for living up to some label. Sorry.
I know what it is to be sleep deprived and decide to give the baby a few minutes to settle him/herself. There's plenty of discussion about healthy methods for doing so in books by doctors such as Brazelton, Sears, Spock, etc. So why shouldn't it be open for discussion here?
Recently in one of Brazelton's books I read enough about helping a baby to settle himself that I tried a few things, modified to suit my own needs and my particular baby (this is the key to anything, I think). Brazelton clearly states he doesn't believe in CIO but that a baby can cry or fuss for a few minutes without it being CIO, so to speak.
Often if someone is so sleep deprived they need to try CIO, it works and they get some much-needed rest. As long as it isn't a pattern of letting one's baby cry for hours on end every night as a bedtime routine, I honestly don't see what damage 15 minutes of crying will do to a baby. That's not very long at all. It might not be the best thing to do but it might have been necessary.
Again, my apologies for not having had the chance to read the original post.
I know what it is to be sleep deprived and decide to give the baby a few minutes to settle him/herself. There's plenty of discussion about healthy methods for doing so in books by doctors such as Brazelton, Sears, Spock, etc. So why shouldn't it be open for discussion here?
Recently in one of Brazelton's books I read enough about helping a baby to settle himself that I tried a few things, modified to suit my own needs and my particular baby (this is the key to anything, I think). Brazelton clearly states he doesn't believe in CIO but that a baby can cry or fuss for a few minutes without it being CIO, so to speak.
Often if someone is so sleep deprived they need to try CIO, it works and they get some much-needed rest. As long as it isn't a pattern of letting one's baby cry for hours on end every night as a bedtime routine, I honestly don't see what damage 15 minutes of crying will do to a baby. That's not very long at all. It might not be the best thing to do but it might have been necessary.
Again, my apologies for not having had the chance to read the original post.
And just to clarify, I never asked her to or implied that she should delete her post. I'd love to hear more about why she felt she had to use CIO. In her OP she was very short - she didn't want a whiny baby clinging to her leg so she let her CIO and it worked.
I believe CIO should be an open topic on these boards. Shouldn't it be in the name of finding a gentler method? The OP just stating that she did it
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I'd love to hear more and have a productive conversation about it. If I came off harsh and hurt her feelings, I have already apologized for that.
And ftr: I think 15 minutes of crying alone can damage a 10 month old baby. I'm off to find the articles talking about research in this area.
I believe CIO should be an open topic on these boards. Shouldn't it be in the name of finding a gentler method? The OP just stating that she did it
I'd love to hear more and have a productive conversation about it. If I came off harsh and hurt her feelings, I have already apologized for that.
And ftr: I think 15 minutes of crying alone can damage a 10 month old baby. I'm off to find the articles talking about research in this area.
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I wish I'd been able to read the original post, too.
I think there's a whole range of "CIO" and it's not always the worst thing in the world. I've had a tired, hysterical baby that I tried rocking, singing to, walking, etc. to get to sleep, with no success, and then put the crying baby down somewhere safe, went to the bathroom, came back and he was asleep! Is that CIO?
Actually, I think with some babies, at certain times, our calming measures add stimulation that keeps them awake, and puttig them down for a few minutes, crying, even, can sometimes be the right thing to do. Of course, I don't mean you leave the baby getting more and more hysterical and clearly completely distressed, until they drop from giving up on anybody ever coming for them... that thought makes me want to cry.
I think there's a whole range of "CIO" and it's not always the worst thing in the world. I've had a tired, hysterical baby that I tried rocking, singing to, walking, etc. to get to sleep, with no success, and then put the crying baby down somewhere safe, went to the bathroom, came back and he was asleep! Is that CIO?
Actually, I think with some babies, at certain times, our calming measures add stimulation that keeps them awake, and puttig them down for a few minutes, crying, even, can sometimes be the right thing to do. Of course, I don't mean you leave the baby getting more and more hysterical and clearly completely distressed, until they drop from giving up on anybody ever coming for them... that thought makes me want to cry.
I also missed the OP before it got edited.
But, I do want to point EVERYONE towards this sticky in the Family Bed forum.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=179657 Here you will find tons and tons of articles, and evidence of the potential harm in letting a child cry without comfort of any sort. CIO is not ok. MDC does not ever encourage anyone to do something that our instincts tell us is wrong. In the past, threads about CIO end up in flames and have to either be closed or deleted. Please, mamas, find a more gentle way of handling your sleep problems! That's why we have an entire forum dedicated to just that subject.
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But, I do want to point EVERYONE towards this sticky in the Family Bed forum.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=179657 Here you will find tons and tons of articles, and evidence of the potential harm in letting a child cry without comfort of any sort. CIO is not ok. MDC does not ever encourage anyone to do something that our instincts tell us is wrong. In the past, threads about CIO end up in flames and have to either be closed or deleted. Please, mamas, find a more gentle way of handling your sleep problems! That's why we have an entire forum dedicated to just that subject.
"I believe CIO should be an open topic on these boards. Shouldn't it be in the name of finding a gentler method? The OP just stating that she did it"- lindsaylou
If something is an open topic surely it shouldn't be "in the name" of anything. It's either open for discussion or not.
I didn't read the original post but I don't think stating that she let her baby cry it out automatically implies that she did anything wrong. I mean, really. Let's all remember to respect each other as the unique parents for unique children.
"Actually, I think with some babies, at certain times, our calming measures add stimulation that keeps them awake, and puttig them down for a few minutes, crying, even, can sometimes be the right thing to do."- plantmommy
Yes, I agree, and this is what Brazelton was talking about; that crying in an infant also serves the purpose of organization, stress relief, letting off some of that steam from overstimulation, etc. He does *not* advocate CIO, so there are ways and ways of a baby crying, as Spock discusses also.
If something is an open topic surely it shouldn't be "in the name" of anything. It's either open for discussion or not.
I didn't read the original post but I don't think stating that she let her baby cry it out automatically implies that she did anything wrong. I mean, really. Let's all remember to respect each other as the unique parents for unique children.
"Actually, I think with some babies, at certain times, our calming measures add stimulation that keeps them awake, and puttig them down for a few minutes, crying, even, can sometimes be the right thing to do."- plantmommy
Yes, I agree, and this is what Brazelton was talking about; that crying in an infant also serves the purpose of organization, stress relief, letting off some of that steam from overstimulation, etc. He does *not* advocate CIO, so there are ways and ways of a baby crying, as Spock discusses also.
Hmm...well then I guess I disagree that CIO should be an open topic. Of course, it isn't my decision. I agree that crying IN ARMS can be a source of stress relief. I think crying while left alone can lead to pstd.
Here is one excellent article about the harm of CIO: http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/1...enNeedTou.html
Mothering published another excellent one that I can't find in my favorites. Anyone else have it handy?
Here is one excellent article about the harm of CIO: http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/1...enNeedTou.html
Mothering published another excellent one that I can't find in my favorites. Anyone else have it handy?
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Lindsay, would you call putting a crying baby down to go pee, after an hour of comforting, and coming back to find he was asleep, CIO?
How about putting the baby down, while he was fussy, but not hysterical, and maintaining eye contact while singing softly, but not touching, until he fell asleep?
There are very different needs for different babes, and CIO is a blanket term. Crying WHAT out, exactly? What do they mean by "crying", for that matter?
How about putting the baby down, while he was fussy, but not hysterical, and maintaining eye contact while singing softly, but not touching, until he fell asleep?
There are very different needs for different babes, and CIO is a blanket term. Crying WHAT out, exactly? What do they mean by "crying", for that matter?
Plantmommy - I agree that every scenerio is different. I don't want to get into making interpretation of the OP since it is erased now. From what I interpreted though, she wanted to get things done around the house without a whiny baby clinging to her leg. It seemed very selfish the way she worded things. That why I responded the way I did.
For me, I try not to *ever* have my child crying out of my arms, and she very rarely ever has. I have gone to the bathroom with her on my lap. I have layed next to her singing while gently rubbing her chest. Nothing has ever made it neccesary for me to leave her to cry alone.
There is a huge difference between putting a child down and going to clean your house because you don't want to bother with a whiny child and taking a breather before you lose it. Of course it is better to walk away for a minute when the tension reaches a certain level. I think 15 minutes is too long to ever leave a baby to cry alone. If you can't get it together before then, I would hope a mother could call in some help from a partner or friend.
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Different babies have different needs. I don't think any baby needs to be put down alone to cry while the mother walks away and ignores him or her. CIO refers to just that. WHAT they are crying out is for their caregiver to come pick them up and empathize with whatever it is they are going through. What I mean by "crying" is a baby communicating his or her need to be close to their mother or other caregiver. We can choose to respond to that cry or ignore it and let the child CIO. I don't see why the validity of CIO is up for debate here at mothering
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For me, I try not to *ever* have my child crying out of my arms, and she very rarely ever has. I have gone to the bathroom with her on my lap. I have layed next to her singing while gently rubbing her chest. Nothing has ever made it neccesary for me to leave her to cry alone.
There is a huge difference between putting a child down and going to clean your house because you don't want to bother with a whiny child and taking a breather before you lose it. Of course it is better to walk away for a minute when the tension reaches a certain level. I think 15 minutes is too long to ever leave a baby to cry alone. If you can't get it together before then, I would hope a mother could call in some help from a partner or friend.
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| There are very different needs for different babes, and CIO is a blanket term. Crying WHAT out, exactly? What do they mean by "crying", for that matter? |
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I'm very hesitant to post a reply to this thread, mainly b/c i'm afraid i'll be berated for having done s/t non-MDC. But, i have a nearly 10-mo baby who has cried at night for different lengths of time. Some of those times, i or my dh is with him 100% of his crying. Other times, when we pick him up, his crying heightens to hysterical. When we put him back in his crib, his crying subsides after 10 or so minutes and he sleeps for several more hours & wakes smiling and happy. Other times, his crying starts out so mild that we decide to let him "CIO" for lack of a better term, and in 15 minutes or so he's fast asleep again & wakes happy/smiley later. Are we bad parents? I sure don't think so. I adore my baby, and i'm with him all day providing comfort and love and play and physical & emotional contact, etc.
And i too wish i could have read the original post.
And i too wish i could have read the original post.
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Thanks for clarifying. I agree with almost everything that you said, although my youngest of 4 has taught me that sometimes he actually wants to be put down to settle on his own. Most of the time, not, but there have been a few instances when he was overtired and overstimulated and I put him gently down out of exasperation, since nothing was helping him to sleep, only to have him calm and go to sleep almost immediately on his own.
I definitely agree that 15 mins. is too long to leave a crying baby alone! In the instances I'm talking about, going to the bathroom is a one minute thing, maybe (and with my older ds who was much more sensitive, he came with me!)
But since I think we agree on reading baby's cues, (and sometimes that cue is: put me down, but that doesn't mean leave me alone) which is the essential point here, I'd call it agreement.
I definitely agree that 15 mins. is too long to leave a crying baby alone! In the instances I'm talking about, going to the bathroom is a one minute thing, maybe (and with my older ds who was much more sensitive, he came with me!)
But since I think we agree on reading baby's cues, (and sometimes that cue is: put me down, but that doesn't mean leave me alone) which is the essential point here, I'd call it agreement.
Yep plantmommy
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My Ds had times where he wanted to be put down also, but definately still wanted me nearby. AP is about meeting a child's needs and occasionally that need is to be put down while crying - but definately not too walk away! (Except when the alternative is to lose control of course).
I'm glad we were able to clarify where we are coming from!
And eugenemama - I'm not sure exactly where you are coming from in your post, but I'm sure you are a great Mama. It sounds to me like you are listening to your child's cues. I always go to my child when she cries. If picking her up made her crying worse I would put her down, but stay near her talking to her etc...
I like what Stafl said earlier about not going against your Mama instincts. To me that means not to ignore that inner pull that makes a mother want to pick up her baby - especially when the baby is crying.
I'm glad we were able to clarify where we are coming from!
And eugenemama - I'm not sure exactly where you are coming from in your post, but I'm sure you are a great Mama. It sounds to me like you are listening to your child's cues. I always go to my child when she cries. If picking her up made her crying worse I would put her down, but stay near her talking to her etc...
I like what Stafl said earlier about not going against your Mama instincts. To me that means not to ignore that inner pull that makes a mother want to pick up her baby - especially when the baby is crying.
Sometimes I think cio is not harmful. There are times when a mother/father have reached there limit and it is safer for them to leave the room. I can say that each of my children have "cio" at some point. Does that make me a bad mom? I don't think so that makes me human.
And as a woman who was spanked/beat as a child, letting my overly tired child cry it out for 5 mins and me taking those 5 mins to center myself is safer for my child then me repeating the pattern of abuse.
It severly hurts my feelings when cio is attacked with such judgement. Having chilren cio because you don't care if they are crying is one thing. After trying other gentlier options and feeling that you are at the end of your rope...I feel it is ok. It should be used only as a last resort.
And as a woman who was spanked/beat as a child, letting my overly tired child cry it out for 5 mins and me taking those 5 mins to center myself is safer for my child then me repeating the pattern of abuse.
It severly hurts my feelings when cio is attacked with such judgement. Having chilren cio because you don't care if they are crying is one thing. After trying other gentlier options and feeling that you are at the end of your rope...I feel it is ok. It should be used only as a last resort.
Angelbee - I think myself and others have made it clear that we agree with you. It is better for a child to cry alone for a short time than to have a mother lose her cool.
I am not here to judge people as good or bad parents. I'm sure you are a great mom! Not that my opinion really matters. I'm judging CIO as a less than ideal parenting practice. I'm judging that it *can* harm a child to cry alone.
As an anaolgy - we all know that breastmilk is best for a child, kind of like crying in arms is the best place for a child to be crying. When breastmilk is not available we are glad that there are other things to feed a child. When a mothers arms are not available (because she may hurt the child) then it is better for the child to cry alone until the mother can regain composure and come back to the child somewhat refreshed. Not the best analogy, but I hope it was somewhat clear what I'm trying to say.
I feel like kind of an ass because the OP was deleted and my words sound so harsh earlier in the thread. I was just shocked to see someone post saying what the OP said. Unfortunately you all can't see it. However, she wasn't saying she left her child to cry because she was at her wits end. She wasn't asking for support because she was losing it and used CIO as a last resort. Like I said before, the OP is gone so I don't want to speak for her....If she wanted to come back and join this discussion that would be great!
I am not here to judge people as good or bad parents. I'm sure you are a great mom! Not that my opinion really matters. I'm judging CIO as a less than ideal parenting practice. I'm judging that it *can* harm a child to cry alone.
As an anaolgy - we all know that breastmilk is best for a child, kind of like crying in arms is the best place for a child to be crying. When breastmilk is not available we are glad that there are other things to feed a child. When a mothers arms are not available (because she may hurt the child) then it is better for the child to cry alone until the mother can regain composure and come back to the child somewhat refreshed. Not the best analogy, but I hope it was somewhat clear what I'm trying to say.
I feel like kind of an ass because the OP was deleted and my words sound so harsh earlier in the thread. I was just shocked to see someone post saying what the OP said. Unfortunately you all can't see it. However, she wasn't saying she left her child to cry because she was at her wits end. She wasn't asking for support because she was losing it and used CIO as a last resort. Like I said before, the OP is gone so I don't want to speak for her....If she wanted to come back and join this discussion that would be great!
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I have to ask the OP did you let her CIO or did you simple allow her to throw a fit in the bed till she calmed down and went to sleep. I believe there is a difference and yet some don't know what to call a tantrum throwing crying child. At 10 mo old, you know if your dd needs you or needs sleep and at some point CIO does not refer to toddler tantrums. Additionally, if mama needs sleep, then SOMETIMES you have to do what you have to do.
I have a very honory 2 1/2 yr old, I put him in his bed and if he chooses to throw a temper tantrum with whiny crying, screaming, throwing everything out of the bed, I let him. Now he didn't do this at 10 mo, I'd say he's been doing it at least since he was 15 mo old. When it's bed time I change him, give him his cup and his blankey and sometimes he goes right to sleep and other times he decides to jump up and down, scream at the top of his lungs and spit.
My dh lays down with dd sometimes to get her to sleep. He does a much better job, b/c w/ me she only wants to nurse and she gets full but not sleepy. He pats and rubs her back until she falls asleep (when he can). Maybe your dh could assist you. My dd will cry w/ him for a few minutes, but this is not CIO (ferberizing sp??), this is just a tired baby letting go. I loved the article in Mothering on crying infants and how sometimes they need to cry to just let the stress go and it was okay for them to cry. The article really shed light onto my colicky infant.
I hope you can find something to work. My ds2, the 2 1/2 tantrum thrower was also my colicky hold me 24/7 infant that I never put down w/o him crying, so he wasn't put down much just for the essentials of mommy care and 1st child care. Car trips were the worst.
I feel for you...
I have a very honory 2 1/2 yr old, I put him in his bed and if he chooses to throw a temper tantrum with whiny crying, screaming, throwing everything out of the bed, I let him. Now he didn't do this at 10 mo, I'd say he's been doing it at least since he was 15 mo old. When it's bed time I change him, give him his cup and his blankey and sometimes he goes right to sleep and other times he decides to jump up and down, scream at the top of his lungs and spit.
My dh lays down with dd sometimes to get her to sleep. He does a much better job, b/c w/ me she only wants to nurse and she gets full but not sleepy. He pats and rubs her back until she falls asleep (when he can). Maybe your dh could assist you. My dd will cry w/ him for a few minutes, but this is not CIO (ferberizing sp??), this is just a tired baby letting go. I loved the article in Mothering on crying infants and how sometimes they need to cry to just let the stress go and it was okay for them to cry. The article really shed light onto my colicky infant.
I hope you can find something to work. My ds2, the 2 1/2 tantrum thrower was also my colicky hold me 24/7 infant that I never put down w/o him crying, so he wasn't put down much just for the essentials of mommy care and 1st child care. Car trips were the worst.
I feel for you...
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