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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I went to my initial pregnancy meeting/apt today. They have a group of women together to watch a video and fill out forms and then seperate for counseling. The nurse giving the briefing started telling us that they want to give hep b at birth and to be prepared for that. Someone else questioned why and I backed them up by saying something sarcastic about how babies get pretty wild between one and twelve hours old... The nurse then made a very rude IMO statement about the other mother not being an expert and she should trust the immunology people because they are experts. To which I asked,"like the doctors that prescribed motrin to a pregnant woman?" (The lady next to me had just found out she shouldn't be taking it! I then said that I considered myself as well informed as half the doctors I talked to and more informed than the other half. (Earlier I had questioned whether the flu shots given still had mercury, just to bring it up and she had no idea any shots had mercury/thimerosal or that it was being "phased out") I recommended doing research outside of the doctors office and starting with the statistic pages of the CDC.<br><br>
I am sick of people acting like doctors are infallible gods who are omniscent and should be obeyed at all costs. I am grateful for all the advances made in medicine and for the people who practice it. But people are all subject to human error. And most of the doctors I have met recently do not seem to be able to think outside of the bubble of their college textbooks.<br><br>
Just a vent, sorry nothing of value to share.
 

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You go girl!! I wonder how many minds you opened up just a little today. Most of them had probably never even given a second-thought about doctors making mistakes. <i>How could they?! They went to medical school and received the divine wisdom of doctors who've gone before them!!</i><br><br>
I know it's hard to deal with that type of thing day-in and day-out, especially in a society where it's so in-your-face, but you did AWESOME!<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbsup">
 

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Hear ya. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hammer.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hammer">
 

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I understand. Some doctors don't get that probably 90% of what they learned in med school can be found through research to the average layperson. Just too much faith in the medical establishment.
 

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pumpkinsmama,<br><br>
I admire you very much for what you did. I will probably never get there - all I do is maybe mumble something mild and then let it all out on my dh at home!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>pumpkinsmama</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I am grateful for all the advances made in medicine</div>
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I am just curious what are your examples of these, since "normal" people would often give vaxes as such an example.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>pumpkinsmama</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I am sick of people acting like doctors are infallible gods who are omniscent and should be obeyed at all costs. ... And most of the doctors I have met recently do not seem to be able to think outside of the bubble of their college textbooks.<br></div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up">s<br><br>
Phleeeze - they are "DOCTORS" after all. Have a little respect, will ya!<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"><br><br>
It's not so much the college textbooks as it is the daily barrage from pharma reps who themselves would not touch the stuff they peddle.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Planta</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I am just curious what are your examples of these, since "normal" people would often give vaxes as such an example.</div>
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I think brain surgery and open heart surgery are two of the more common things that people think of, and I think most of us can agree that those are pretty impressive and useful. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>tiffany21074</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Some doctors don't get that probably 90% of what they learned in med school can be found through research to the average layperson.</div>
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Yes, what do they do for four years in medical school?
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>miriam</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Yes, what do they do for four years in medical school?</div>
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I'm interested to know this too - seriously! I have a friend who is an MD, an OB actually, and it seems like I am more well-informed than she is on many issues related to childbirth! (But I hear that she performs a mean C-section <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:...no pun intended...)<br><br><br>
Blessed, if you are reading this...you're a surgeon, so obviously you had to learn surgery, but what did you learn in med school that *couldn't* be learned by the average intelligent person with access to medical journals and other good sources of medical info? Sorry if the question is cheeky and a bit OT. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/blush.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="blush"><br><br>
Also, I agree that the existence of brain surgery and heart surgery - and surgery in general - presents a vast improvement over premodern times. I tend to align myself generally with Dr. Andrew Weil's philosophy...that is, to appreciate the things which modern medicine does well and to go outside the allopathic model for things which it does not (like nutrition!). <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"><br><br>
Pumpkinsmama, it is truly shocking how ignorant many HCPs are - although they are certainly not ALL ignorant - we love DD's ped, for example. But my GP tried to prescribe me an acne medication that is teratogenic right after I told her I was TTC so I specifically needed something that was safe to take. It's remarkable sometimes that people do as well as they do listening to allopathic medicine. But a lot of people DON'T do well. My father has many health conditions and seems to think that if a pill can "solve" a problem like diabetes or high blood pressure, he can eat junk all day long, smoke cigars and drink whiskey <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/yikes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="EEK!"> and never exercise and he'll be fine. Then he gets depressed when inevitably he's NOT fine but does he want to listen when I suggest that his diet might not be all it can be? Noooo...he trusts the doctors. None of whom apparently have told him what a proper diabetic diet consists of. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:<br><br>
When I had "gestational diabetes" during pregnancy my "required" diet class was chock-full of misinformation and scare tactics. I did correct some of it but I stopped because the nurses running the class were beginning to be quite annoyed and I could see that no one in the class was going to believe ME over the "professionals". Ai yi yi. Good on you for speaking up.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>pumpkinsmama</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I am grateful for all the advances made in medicine and for the people who practice it.</div>
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Exactly, I'm grateful for the ones who actually read the research and practice with current information in mind.<br><br>
Transplantation and microsurgery are things I am also grateful for. As is my son.<br><br>
mv
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Planta</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">pumpkinsmama,<br><br>
I admire you very much for what you did. I will probably never get there - all I do is maybe mumble something mild and then let it all out on my dh at home!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br><br>
I am just curious what are your examples of these, since "normal" people would often give vaxes as such an example.</div>
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<br>
One example would be when my FIL had a pig valve transplanted from a pig heart into his own heart. (I didn't get the technical details or what ithe operation is called) Prior to that he was on oxygen, struggling to live every day at a time. Now he is fit and healthy enough to enjoy spending time with his grandson. He is an interesting man. He also has had a procedure where they inserted a cadaver bone into his leg after a vehicle accident. He walks with a small limp, but he walks. So he has a pig valve in his heart and a dead mans bone in his leg. Small wonder he is donating his body to science, after all it has given him.<br><br>
(Although his doctors told him his heart condition was caused by the flu shot years ago)<br><br>
There is a lot of good in modern medicine. I blame a lot of the bad on commercialism and the pharma industry.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>pumpkinsmama</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">(Although his doctors told him his heart condition was caused by the flu shot years ago)</div>
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Don't leave us hangin!!! Explain please!!!
 

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Years ago, Dr Robert A Good, who was a world renowned teacher, researcher and paediatrician, who would become very famous in immunology, said this:<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">In a personal way, I realized the impact of scholarly endeavour on the body of knowledge from my own attempt to encompass the body of knowledge in medicine when I was a medical student. I sat in the front row of every class. I took down everything the professor said, complemented this body of knowledge with the information I learned form my instructors in the laboratory, from relevant information I could glean from reading and digesting the best textbooks on each subject, and even from extracting the substance of the most relevant articles in contemporary scientific journals.<br><br>
All this, I included in my notes for study in beautiful Morocco-bound notebooks. The scheme seemed to work, because it gave me very high grades in school, top scores in state and national board examinations and my choice of training spots and fellowships. I closed my notebooks however, for 10 years.<br><br>
When I opened them again, and studied them 10 years after so carefully completing them, I was astonished to find that they were almost entirely filled with lies. Except for a few descriptions such as well-established anatomy, everything that seemed so orderly and beautiful with the rather comprehensive treatment I had given it for one moment in history, had changed, grown, and been reordered by the scholarship of the intervening ten years. That is why it is so important so frequently to take stock as we have done in this conference, and to consider what has been happening in the research laboratories and in our thinking on so many subjects.</td>
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Good, R. A: Impressions, summary and questions raised by the IgA Symposium. International Symposium on the Immunoglobulin A System, **********, Alabama, 1973. Page 514 in In: The Immunologlobulin A system: Proceedings (J. Mestecky and A.R. Lawton, eds.), New York, Plenum, 1974, pp. 45:513-531 (Adv. Exp. Med. Biol., Vol. 45).<br><br>
At least he knew in retrospect it was lies. Perhaps he missed the irony that he had been offered prestigious jobs, and his choice of plums on the basis of being marked correct for a load of bollocks.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Momtezuma Tuatara</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">At least he knew in retrospect it was lies. Perhaps he missed the irony that he had been offered prestigious jobs, and his choice of plums on the basis of being marked correct for a load of bollocks.</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
Now just what are "bollocks" anyway? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue"><br><br>
mv
 

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Just last week a friend took her 6 mth old daughter to the Dr for an ear infection. He looked at her and said she had sinus/allergies and to give her sudafed!! This same Dr had frozen a mole off of the childs face 1 week earlier (b/c he said it was neccesary) and there was a little mark on her face from it and he wanted to know if she had gotton bit by a mosquito. I can tell you I for one have lost my faith in believing everything a doctor tells me.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mamaverdi</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
Now just what are "bollocks" anyway? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue"><br><br>
mv</div>
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MT translation unit here! Do you want the literal translation?<br><br>
I guess so.......testicles! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
When you are telling lies or talking nonsense, you're talking bollocks.
 

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Hugh Fudenberg has over 40 plus years in immunology, he stated he's been warning them for years about the mercury and the aluminum in vaccines.
 

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good for you for speaking up, maybe planed a few seeds in the other mama's minds.
 

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The amount of actual immunology that medical doctors take in school is negligible. I believe it's comparable to the amount of microbiology, which is 6 weeks, and we wonder why we have an epidemic of resistant bacteria caused by antibiotic misuse/overuse. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: I hear about this all the time from my DH, who is a PhD microbiologist with extensive training in immunology. We don't take anything MDs say as gospel.
 
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