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Discussion Starter #1
(I hope thats the term) 5 or more pregnancies?<br><br>
I don't accept that I'll be high risk <i><b>just because</b></i><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: but if anyone can point me to the research that causes people to think this I'd apprecite it.<br><br>
I'm researching now and can't tell the difference between a normal birth and pregnancy in a GM and one which is medically managed. They also don't qualify for age<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: .<br><br>
I don't understand how you can reach a conclusion like "it's more risky" with such shoddy proof. I'm barely 30 and in the best shape of my life.<br><br>
I could say cars are dangerous because drunk people get into serious accidents, but that doen't mean that a sober person has the same risks.
 

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Higher risk of hemhorrhage - but every midwife is prepared for bleeding - it's not predictable.<br>
Some of it has to do with birth history - babies tend to get bigger - I would be concerned about a mama with a history of 4 increasing difficult shoulder dystocias.<br>
Sometimes the uterus gets a little less efficient (that's where the bleeding risk comes from), so labor procedes more slowly - but that's not an emergent risk, it's just information to know.<br><br>
Sometimes there are state laws about high risks, lines that say that grand multiparas or great grand multiparas or girls under 13 are not to be served by midwives.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
My births haven't followed any pattern in length, babies size or complication.
 

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I love women who've had lots of babies - somehow it seems a little silly that many women have only one or two birth experiences - we were made for so many more.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Apricot</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7939738"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I love women who've had lots of babies - somehow it seems a little silly that many women have only one or two birth experiences - we were made for so many more.</div>
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<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/banana.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="banana"> I have to agree. I'm lucky to assist at births sometimes and it's more enjoyable when the mom already has a handful of kids running around.<br><br>
In nthis case, it wouldnt even be out baby. I have a friend who lost her uterus (still has ovaries) and I'm beginning to look into carrying for her.<br><br>
I spoke with a clinic this morning was thrown by their dismissal.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Rockies5</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7939924"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">In nthis case, it wouldnt even be out baby. I have a friend who lost her uterus (still has ovaries) and I'm beginning to look into carrying for her.<br><br>
I spoke with a clinic this morning was thrown by their dismissal.</div>
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Can you PM me? I'm in Denver and might have a person for you to talk to for support.<br><br>
-G
 

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Your biggest risk? Having a perfectly BORING pregnancy and beautiful birth to a healthy baby. Seriously.<br><br>
If you're going the hospital birth route, you'll be labeled and treated as a high risk patient.<br><br>
With a midwife at home, it would be different (or it *could* be, not always).<br><br>
I have many grand multips (12, 10, 8, 9 babies!) and their births are smooth and easy. Seriously. Anecdotal, but it's true.
 

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A nurse friend told me once that the info in textbooks like williams obstetrics etc is usually garnered from lower socio econmically deprived people who live in cities around big teaching hospitals,thus a greater likelyhood of bad outcomes in grand multiparas.<br>
It makes sense,'cause it's something I've never seen in the hb community.A big family usually means a well fed well cared for mom with older children to help her out!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>saintmom</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7946308"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">A nurse friend told me once that the info in textbooks like williams obstetrics etc is usually garnered from lower socio econmically deprived people who live in cities around big teaching hospitals,thus a greater likelyhood of bad outcomes in grand multiparas.<br>
It makes sense,'cause it's something I've never seen in the hb community.A big family usually means a well fed well cared for mom with older children to help her out!</div>
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I'm currently pregnant with baby #5, and it has been my easiest pregnancy of all by far. I had very little ms. My bp is picture perftct. My body is just in wonderful shape. Its like my body remembers and just knows what to do.<br><br>
My one and only complaint at this point is that my uterus isn't quite as elastic as it used to be so this baby has so much room to move around. It has me a little stressed out that the baby may never find a vertex position....its been mostly breech and transverse so far. I'm sure that in a few more weeks this baby will figure things out.<br><br>
I'm planning a HB, so I haven't been treated any differently that I have been with my other pregnancies. If anything I have been followed LESS closely because my mw knows that I know what I am doing and I know if things are progressing normally or not.
 

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probably the best way for you to find the info you are looking for is on Pub Med- put in "grand multipara" as a search- there are 5 pages of references, not all the articles will apply but you will be able to find some of the studies that way--<br>
I like this one because it defines active labor in a grand multip as starting at 6cm and not 4cm.. which is an important point.<br>
the other study I have included here has to do with economic status- now they do say disease states and because women with higher parity tend to be older - they are more likely to have BP issues or Diabetes and other chronic illnesses of aging--<br>
Am J Obstet Gynecol. 2002 Jun;186(6):1331-8.<br><br>
The labor curve of the grand multipara: does progress of labor continue to<br>
improve with additional childbearing?<br><br>
Gurewitsch ED, Diament P, Fong J, Huang GH, Popovtzer A, Weinstein D, Chervenak FA.<br>
Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology of the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD, USA.<br><br>
OBJECTIVE: Our purpose was to test the hypothesis that progress of labor slows as parity exceeds 4 by comparing labor curves of grand multiparous women (para 5 and over) (GMs) with those of nulliparous and lower-parity multiparous women.<br>
STUDY DESIGN: Retrospective cohorts of spontaneously laboring,<br>
vertex-presenting, term GMs who were admitted to two medical centers during the period from January 1990 through June 1995 were randomly computer-matched to a nulliparous and a lower-parity multiparous control subject, matched for age, hospital, and year of delivery. Cervical examination data were graphed retrospectively from the time of full dilatation. Curves were compared by pairwise likelihood ratio tests, by using a random effects model to adjust for obstetric interventions, with significance set at P <.05. RESULTS: Pregnancies in 1095 GMs, 1174 lower-parity multiparous women, and 908 nulliparous women were studied. GMs exhibit a longer initial phase of labor than either nulliparous women or lower-parity multiparous women, begin to dilate rapidly at a greater dilatation than nulliparous women, and experience acceleration of labor at a rate no faster than lower-parity multiparous women. The average labor curve of GMs resembles that of nulliparous women before dilatation of 4 cm is attained,<br>
then transitions to the typical curve of the lower-parity multiparous women<br>
until dilatation of 6 cm is attained and thereafter is indistinguishable from<br>
that of the lower-parity multiparous women (P <.001). CONCLUSIONS: Once parity exceeds 4, progress of labor slows. "Poor progress" beyond dilatation of 4 cm should not be considered abnormal for a GM, because she is likely still in the latent phase until dilatation of 6 cm is attained. Nor should she be expected to progress through her active phase any faster than lower-parity multiparous women.<br><br>
PMID: 12066118 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]<br><br>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Eur J Obstet Gynecol Reprod Biol. 1990 Jul-Aug;36(1-2):117-23.<br><br>
The effects of the socioeconomic status on the perinatal outcome of grand<br>
multipara.<br><br>
Mor-Yosef S, Seidman DS, Samueloff A, Schenker JG.<br><br>
Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Hadassah University Hospital,<br>
Jerusalem, Israel.<br><br>
Grandmultiparity has been considered as an obstetric hazard both to the mother and the fetus. Since high paritius tend to be more common in the lower socioeconomic groups, the effect of the socioeconomic status on perinatal outcome was evaluated in this study. This survey covers all the deliveries in Israel (22,815) in a 3 month period. The 1542 grand-multiparous women were divided into two groups: low socioeconomic group (947) and high socioeconomic group (595). Perinatal mortality and low birth weight were found to be in correlation with low socioeconomic status but not with grand multiparity. Maternal diseases complicating pregnancy were found to be significantly more common for grand multipara for both socioeconomic groups. This study shows that the grave association of parity and mortality found for the total population was due to the predominance of parturients of low socioeconomic class in the high birth order group.<br><br>
PMID: 2365117 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
 

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I attend a good deal of women with over 5 pregnancies and I have found no higher risk of anything. In fact, usually these deliveries are quick and easy, sometimes so quick I might almost miss them ( and did miss one 2 weeks ago!). I wouldn't worry about anything, I'd be happy to attend a grand-multip over a primip any day.
 

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This is my 10th pregnancy, 9th baby. I am also "older" at 39 years of age. I hve a coupld of "strikes" against me as far as the medical model is concerned. My overall health is not taken into consideration, nor is my past birth history. Very frustrating.<br><br>
My preceptor had me research grand-multiparity, and while I don't have the references in front of me, one of the things I actually read several times over, was that in an otherwise normal pregnancy, a grand multip had no higher incidence of hemorrhage than any other woman.<br><br>
I really, really believe that just looking at a woman's parity is nearsighted, and that there is a responsibility by the care provider to look at other factors before assuming a woman is at high risk. In fact, a history of normal, uneventful births should point to a lower risk of problems.
 

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I am sooooo happy I found this thread!<br>
I want to have a homebirth this time, but everywhere I read they say hw multiparas is a high risk thing and should not homebirth! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:<br><br>
All my babies have been at least 8lbs, and yet, have slid out with a coupleof pushed! Oh, last time I had the pendulum issue because I was very big and did not wear proper support, so I needed so help to have my baby descend. This time around I am all ready to follow all the tips on SpinningBabies and will have a rebozo handy <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
I am dreading going to the local midwife because I just know she will be all negative about my doing a homebirth, specially after she hears I bled a bit heavily the first 2 times (no problem the 2 last times!) and that last time the baby needed help descending! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br>
Anyway, watching an American baby show yesterday (don't know why - I get so mad every time!) there was a woman who was having her 5th baby a a hospital. After "not progressing" for a few hours, the doctors said that a c-section would be safer. Well, after the c-section, the doctors informed her uterus had ruptured and so had her bladder!! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/jaw.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="dropjaw">: The lady was sooo happy that the doctor had saved her, and was feeling very stupid for having even tried to have a baby vaginally the 5t time around "because it is so dangerous" . How does she know this did not happen DURING the c-section??
 
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