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Quote:

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara
Why, I... um... never thought of that.

No wonder the cows at the back look funny



They haven't gone all lumpy have they?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
Adverse reactions in cattle to a capripox vaccine.

Seriously though, looks like dairy farmers are told a lot more about vaccines than mums are:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...n&ct=clnk&cd=1

Quote:
Vaccines: What Can you Expect from them on a Dairy

What goes into a vaccine?

An antigen
A carrier
An adjuvant (not always)- bordetella,
aluminum hydroxide, saponin, freunds,
shark oils, proprietary
Antibiotics- pen/strept, amphotericin B
Undesired by-products

Bottom Line:

Just because a vaccine is licensed does not mean that it is
1. Effective
2. Safe

Adverse Reactions:

Immune Suppression
Excessive cytokine release
Milk Drop
Hypersensitivity
type1-type 4
Multiple vaccine induced problems
Injection site lesions

The Role of Vaccines in Disease Prevention

They require time to work
They don't last forever.
They are not 100% effective.
It is unreasonable to expect vaccines to achieve
identical responses in all animals in all situations

Vaccines for the calf

Calf has a fully function, but immature immune system
 
:

Interesting to me, is the fact that dogs have similar serious side effects from Parvovirus vaccines as children used to have to single measles.

Difference being that dog's can't yank their owners chain, therefore vets say that owners aren't paranoid.

If you get that illogical logic.

and coz dog breeder's income is dependant on eliminating pre-existing conditions and isolating a vaccine reaction its taken more seriously. healthy dogs = money, but only unhealthy people = money. Or healthy people you can convince wouldn't be "healthy" if they didn't become pin-cushions for posterity.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by krissi
For anyone reading this thread who is curious about the link between gut flora and autism, this is an excerpt from a must-have book even though it's hard to find. The interventions suggested in this book have been greatly beneficial after just 2 weeks:
http://www.e-f-t.co.uk/gutfloraandpsychology.html
A mom "emma" with 2 ASD kids on the Pecanbread Yahoo Group has posted extensive notes from her meeting with Dr. Campbell-McBride several months ago if you are interested. Seems somewhat like SCD but different probiotics.

We got rid of Klebsiella with SCD but now are fighting Proteus, makes sense b/c K. feeds on starches and P. feeds on proteins.

DeFelice's book is excellent. I highly recommend for gut/behavior connection and best description I've found of leaky gut and dysbiosis: www.enzymestuff.com
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by krissi
DD's uranium result in the hair test was 15 times the reference level for what was normal. I have not been able to find any substantive info on this from my research; many sources say that hair is unreliable, but I'm finding it hard to believe that level is normal.
PM user "Gale Force" and search for her posts on her uranium problems.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara
: and coz dog breeder's income is dependant on eliminating pre-existing conditions and isolating a vaccine reaction its taken more seriously. healthy dogs = money, but only unhealthy people = money. Or healthy people you can convince wouldn't be "healthy" if they didn't become pin-cushions for posterity.
On the subject of dogs, MT: Do vaccinated dogs get autism? They certainly get ADD and ADHD:

http://www.sniksnak.com/doghealth/excite.html

Quote:
(ADHD), can be diagnosed by veterinary examination and testing. Dogs with hyperactivity disorder are difficult to train, respond poorly to tranquilization, may exhibit repetitive behaviors such as incessant barking or circling, may have gastrointestinal disorders, and can be extremely resistant to restraint.
http://www.irishwolfhounds.org/vaccination.htm
From What Are the Adverse Reactions, If Any?:

Quote:
Recurrent diarrhea
"Restless nature,
suspicion of others,
aggression to animals and people"
Changes in behavior:
"aloofness,
unaffectionate,
desire to roam,
or clingy, separation anxiety, 'velcro dog'"
"Restraining can lead to violent behavior and self-injury"
"Self-mutilation, tail chewing"
"Voice changes, hoarseness, excessive barking"
"Chronic poor appetite, very finicky"
"Eating wood, stones, earth, stool"
Destructive behavior,
Inflammatory bowel disease"
Excessive licking of feet
Epilepsy
http://www.bogartsdaddy.com/bouvier/...oncerns-uk.htm
Canine Vaccine Survey by Canine Health Concern, England:

Quote:
But perhaps most astonishing is the fact that a majority of dogs (64.9%) with behavioral problems appear to have developed their difficulties within three months of vaccination. Similarly, 72.5% per cent of dogs with nervous or worrying dispositions became nervous within three months of their jabs (with a Chi score of 112), and 73.1% per cent of dogs with short attention spans lost their attentiveness within three months of vaccination.
http://www.canineworld.com/drdym/
Classical Veterinary Homeopathy - Michael E Dym, VMD:

Quote:
We are also seeing a record number of behavioral and emotional disorders including alarming and unexplained fears/aggression., as well as difficulty focusing/training and paying attention.
http://www.knowbetterdogfood.com/dog...accination.php
Are we vaccinating too much? By Catherine O'Driscoll:

Quote:
Encephalitis, inflammation of the brain, is a known and accepted possible sequel to vaccination. The Merck Manual states, for example, "In acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (post infectious encephalitis), demyelination can occur spontaneously, but usually follows a viral infection or inoculation (or very rarely, a bacterial vaccine), suggesting an immunologic cause."

This points to a connection between encephalitis and behavioural problems in both humans and animals.
This is what I found out about acute disseminated encephalomyelitis or postinfectious encephalomyelitis:

http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/1998/03_98/guti.htm
Postinfectious encephalomyelitis

Quote:
Postinfectious encephalomyelitis, also known as acute disseminated encephalomyelitis, is characterized by perivenular inflammation and demyelination of brain tissue. In this disorder, peripheral blood lymphocytes react against myelin basic protein.
What can cause Acute Disseminated Encephalomyelitis?
http://www.ajnr.org/cgi/content/full/22/6/1117
Delayed MR Imaging Changes in Acute Disseminated Encephalomyelitis:

Quote:
It is usually triggered by an inflammatory response to viral infections and vaccinations.
http://www.neurologyindia.com/articl...;aulast=Murthy

Quote:
It is more common in children because of higher frequency of immunization and exposure to antigen.
http://www.neurologyindia.com/articl...;aulast=Murthy

Quote:
Viral infections associated with ADEM include measles, mumps, rubella, varicella-zoster, Epstein Barr virus, cytomegalo virus, herpes simplex virus, Hepatitis A, and coxsackie virus.

<snip>antirabies vaccination. Other vaccinations associated with ADEM include pertusis, diphtheria, measles, mumps, rubella, and influenza.
What are the symptoms?

http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/1998/03_98/guti.htm
From Identifying the specific cause is key to effective management:

Quote:
Febrile illness, headache, malaise, irritability, lethargy, nausea, vomiting, neck pain, photophobia, altered levels of consciousness, confusion, focal neurologic abnormalities, seizures, unprovoked emotional outbursts, loss of bowel and bladder control.
http://www.bioline.org.br/request?ni02075
From Bioline International:

Quote:
optic neuritis, visual field defects, aphasia, motor and sensory deficits, ataxia, movement disorders, depressed level of consciousness, focal or generalized seizures, psychosis.
http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic163.htm:
From eMedicine:

Quote:
diffuse or focal neurologic symptoms; behavioral and personality changes; decreased level of consciousness, stiff neck, photophobia, lethargy, generalized or localized seizures, acute confusion or amnestic states, change in level of alertness; irritability, seizures, poor feeding, altered mental status and/or personality changes (most common), focal seizures, and autonomic dysfunction, movement disorders, ataxia, unilateral sensorimotor dysfunction, irritability, change in level of attentiveness, bulging fontanels
What is the prognosis?
http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/1998/03_98/guti.htm
Encephalitis - Identifying the specific cause is key to effective management:

Quote:
Supportive care and rehabilitation are important after the patient recovers. Because some sequelae of encephalitis may be subtle, neurodevelopmental and audiologic evaluations should be part of routine follow-up.

Prognosis depends on the cause and severity of the illness and the patient's age.

Potential deficits include intellectual, motor, psychiatric, epileptic, visual, and auditory abnormalities.

Summary
Long-term follow-up is important to detect sequelae <snip>
http://www.encephalitis.info/children/Effects.html
Children - The Effects of Encephalitis

Some questions:

Why is it that most adverse reactions to vaccines are considered insignificant - even when they are identical to symptoms of postinfectious encephalomyelitis?

Why are symptoms of disease following vaccination (i.e adverse reactions) not investigated - and not followed-up?

And, even though vaccination is a cause of postinfectious encephalomyelitis, which can lead to the very same loss of skills and behavioural and personality changes seen in regressive late-onset "autism", why is it that when a normally-developing child has intellectual, motor, psychiatric, visual, auditory and, sometimes, epileptic abnormalities after a vaccine, there is no investigation - he is just diagnosed with "autism"?
 
S007, that is a very interesting and thought provoking post! I had never thought of dogs getting autism and ADHD before. It is actually kind of heartbreaking to see that experts agree on some of the adverse effects of vaccines on dogs but not on children.


JaneS: Thanks for the information. I do plan to read DeFelice's book at some point (have a huge reading list stacked on my desk already ), and will try PM'ing Gale Force if she knows about uranium. GAPS is pretty much just like SCD and outrightly recommends the SCD diet as the best for food purposes, but does discuss different probiotics. She also suggests a few different supplements and recommends that people with neurological issues continue to avoid casein for a period of time whereas SCD is more accepting of casein.

Could you tell me more about your experience with klebsiella? I am curious if you noticed it being associated with any specific symptoms. DS has been going through ultra clingy periods, unusually hyper episodes and some strange poop issues. I can't tell how much of this might be related to his dysbiosis and how much is just normal baby stuff. My holistic ped is not very helpful.
 
Uranium is so damned scary because it's radioactive and we don't fully understand the implications. Over the long term, it's associated with bone cancer because it competes with calcium for slots in the bones. Calcium therapy is the only effective therapy that I know. There are no known chelators of uranium. That's not to say you can't get rid of it, but if you go to a doctor who does heavy metal chelation, that doctor wouldn't have the info on what chelator to use. I think there are rodent studies on this (or at least in process), but that's all.

A long-term game is critical. Gut healing for sure, but the gut will never be fully healed until the uranium is under control. Watching minerals is critical. The red blood cell mineral panels at Metametrix or Doctor's Data might be a good place to start in terms of testing. You could just load up on calcium, but my concern would be that it would throw other levels off. That said, I loaded up on MCHC Calcium (derived from bovine bones) and my uranium levels decreased 40% in six months while I was on a candida diet. I had some other metal exposure after that (arsenic mainly) and my uranium levels went up again (not to the original level) even though my water source was a lot cleaner. Bodies can only handle so much filtering. It's all a long process. Best to get situated for years of diligence. heck, in this poluted world, it's a lifetime of diligence.
 
krissi -- there also isn't a lot of knowledge among the health community about the uranium in California groundwater. The Rockies have uranium ore in various places and people have been contaminated from coming into contact with it. But in the Sierras in California there are supposedly a lot of uranium deposits with the granite and the water filters through as it heads to the valley. But there have also been studies of various water basins in the San Joaquin Valley -- the dry lake beds -- and the levels of uranium are very high. It's not clear if it's because uranium has come down from the Sierras for years and has landed there as water evaporated or if there is some more sinister explanation. In talking to one person about this, I asked if there was a seasonality to the uranium levels and he said "it all depends on when the government dumps it."
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by krissi
Could you tell me more about your experience with klebsiella? I am curious if you noticed it being associated with any specific symptoms. DS has been going through ultra clingy periods, unusually hyper episodes and some strange poop issues. I can't tell how much of this might be related to his dysbiosis and how much is just normal baby stuff. My holistic ped is not very helpful.
Yes, yes, and yes. What kind of strange poop issues? That will tell you everything you need to know IME.

When DS's poop is mush we've had all those things you mention, including more nightwaking, sleep fighting and SID things like not wanting to be touched and clothing issues. And also some ASD behaviors like toe walking, spinning and hand flapping appeared a few times too, again only when poop "goes to custard" to use an MT expression.


We spent a week without enzymes and probiotics recently for gut testing and that was very interesting from an observational standpoint. I fully believe had I not been so diligent about his diet from the minute he got full body eczema from starting cereals as his first food (and of course not vaxing) I would have an ASD child here. I still worry about this of course as his gut is no where near out of the woods.

I firmly believe a certain kind of hyperactivity is not at all normal and is very related to diet and gut health. A mother knows what is normal and what isn't for their child. My guy just cannot calm down and needs to have a meltdown at night and naps to sleep, that's not normal and there's been times when his digestion/poop has been excellent... and gee, his behavior is noticeably different too.
 
Most kids with autistic spectrum not only have custard but it smells worse, and different.... sorry if that's TMI.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by krissi
S007, that is a very interesting and thought provoking post! I had never thought of dogs getting autism and ADHD before. It is actually kind of heartbreaking to see that experts agree on some of the adverse effects of vaccines on dogs but not on children.

Thanks, krissi. It is heartbreaking. But I am certain that there are at least some experts who are very well aware of adverse reactions and because of that, don't vaccinate their own children. After all, there are pediatricians, doctors, nurses and workers in special needs services who either selectively vaccinate their own children or don't vaccinate them at all. They know about the dangers of vaccination because they are at the bottom of the cliff. Unfortunately, most people only meet these individuals when they find themselves at the bottom of the cliff, not while they're living in ignorance at the top.
 
Gale Force, that is so scary about the uranium. I have been giving DD calcium for a while but I think we will switch her to MCHC calcium after reading about it in the other thread. We're trying to supplement other minerals too. She was deficient in almost everything when we had her tested through Metametrix.


JaneS: Wow, thanks for the info. That sounds totally familiar. DS poop has been changing a lot but the issue right now is (possible TMI here) that it IS alternating between constipation and mush and it has an extremely strong odor of moldy cheese. He is getting into this hyper state where it's hard to figure out what to do with him and he looks a little crazed; reminiscent of DD when her yeast was totally out of control. He doesn't want to be held and spins in circles in my arms, but he also cries if I put him down on the floor even if I sit down next to him. He's having increasing trouble getting to sleep and appears sensitive to grains even if they're in my diet coming through breastmilk. Although we've been doing probiotics a while now and holding back on solids, the problems seem to be getting worse. Maybe we need to get more aggressive and add in something like enzymes. Or switch the probiotics. What we're doing doesn't appear to be working. Maybe I will surf over to Amazon and order that DeFelice book right now...
 
What is a "normal" level of hyper? My 5 month old gets quite hyper when she is tired--ever since she was about two months old when she is tired her arms and legs start going like mad. Recently she's also started getting extremely wiggly when she is held--when I have her on my hip I have to hike her back up every 60 seconds or so, and in the sling it's like wearing a baby monkey. Does that sound like too much, or just on the active side of normal?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara
Most kids with autistic spectrum not only have custard but it smells worse, and different.... sorry if that's TMI.
Oh yes, we have the "bring the house down" smell most of the time too!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by caedmyn
What is a "normal" level of hyper? My 5 month old gets quite hyper when she is tired--ever since she was about two months old when she is tired her arms and legs start going like mad. Recently she's also started getting extremely wiggly when she is held--when I have her on my hip I have to hike her back up every 60 seconds or so, and in the sling it's like wearing a baby monkey. Does that sound like too much, or just on the active side of normal?
Great question that only a mama can answer I think. Unfortunately hindsight is 20/20 with first timers! My DS used to twirl his feet a lot as a babe, it didn't register with me then as it does now. I think the question re: hyperness and tiredness is when it happens, whether they do sleep well and if they sleep enough. If not, then you have a problem.
 
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