[Linda on the move]

I'm not trying to be snarky but I am really wondering how it is that kids can spend all day at school year after year and not be exposed to wonderful literature and interesting history.

We read every day and have since the kids were quite small. I've read most of the children's classics to my kids as well as mythology, fairy tales, etc. I don't spend that much time every day reading outloud, but day after day, year after year, we've read sooooo many good books! Because of this, they love literature and see themes across time and space. My 8 year old yesterday starting talking about the quest for immortality in Gilgamesh, Harry Potter, and The Lord of the Rings (which we are currently reading.) The things she said would have made a good basis for a college paper.

When I look at our day and what my kids spend most of their time doing -- they are normal kids who go swimming, play with toys, watch TV, play computer games etc. The actual amount of time they spend in accademic pursuits is very small compared to kids who spend all day in school. It just makes me wonder what kids do all day at school if they don't get around to the Odyssey until highschool and then don't have the background to enjoy it, and can't understand Shakespeare because the language throws them for a loop. I just don't get it.

 

[slightly crunchy]

Well, I know what they do, because I remember. Busy work, for me, and a lot of time waiting for others to finish what they are doing so we could move on to even more busy work.

 

[Jillie]

I often wonder this as well. I can imagine the wasted time and waiting that they do. I tend to think it is really more daycare sometimes than a learning envirnment.

 

[RiverSky]

Good question!

 

[Sihaya]

Do you really want an answer?

Busy work is actually just a tiny part of it. As an elementary school tutor and sister to a high schooler who wishes he was homeschooled, I am amazed at how little of worth gets taught or absorbed for as many hours and dollars invested by students, teachers, parents, administrators and community members. But, schools are institutions, and that is how they are run.

In elementary school, there are assemblies, reccesses, time spent getting ready to go outside, coming in from outside, gym, library, computers, and the time walking the halls to and from these things, and, of course, the time spent lining up. Also the time spent making sure students aren't talking, time to issue hall passes or ask permission to use the restroom, and on and on.

In high school, half an hour to an hour each day is spent just going from class to class (and lockers in between). 5-10 minutes at the beginning of the class is used for taking attendance and general classroom "housekeeping." Spirit days, sports events and drama or music performances that take place during the school day, motivational speakers, and extra-curricular activities treated as academic subjects (art, band, weight-training, sports, etc). In some cases, showering takes up a part of the day as well.

Add to these things the high volume of tv shows and videos shown, usually to give the teacher extra time to grade papers and tests. Speaking of tests, a vast majority of, if not all of, "academic" time is used to deliver the material that will be on the ominous test, regardless of whether it is useful, interesting, or, for that matter, true.

Then, like slightly crunchy mentioned, there's the time spent by the rest of the class waiting for the slowest student to finish silent reading, finish their test, finish a worksheet, or whatever else they happen to be doing. And many times, class time is used to do homework

I am honestly suprised that any learning at all takes place in most schools.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that "non-academic" classes or videos or tv shows aren't worthwhile. I'm not saying that the "slowest" student doesn't deserve as much time as they need to finish what they're working on. Just trying to explain why I still don't know a lick about the Civil War.

 

[phathui5]

Standing in line, waiting to be called on, waiting to go to the bathroom, catering to the lowest common denominator, preparing for standardized tests, taking standardized tests, handling discipline issues...

Who has time for literature? Sheesh.

 

[natashaccat]

Yeah, poor usage of time is one of my biggest issues with schools. There is so much time being spent doing non-productive tasks.

 

[nonconformnmom]

Quote:

Standing in line,

I'm considering homeschooling and I mentioned it to my friend, who is a college professor and is generally on the somewhat crunchy side, and the first thing she said was, "I don't know. I think there's something to be said for learning how to wait in line."

 

[Alana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonconformnmom I'm considering homeschooling and I mentioned it to my friend, who is a college professor and is generally on the somewhat crunchy side, and the first thing she said was, "I don't know. I think there's something to be said for learning how to wait in line."

ummmm....you could always go to the post office or the bank on fridays as a field trip....or to an amusement park....lots of standing in line at those places.

 

[sapphire_chan]

When I went to volunteer at a local elementary school a few semesters ago, they wasted 20 minutes trying to get a room of about 200 kids to all be quiet at once. I wouldn't be at all suprised if they could cut the entire school day by 2 hours just by having teachers take voice lessons because I haven't had voice training and I would have had *no* problems being heard without shouting. They also would have taken only 10 minutes or so to present the information if they'd just done so when they'd gotten the quiet they were looking for instead of wasting time with cr*p about taking away priviledges the next day.

Made me realize just how lucky I was that I was one of those kids who enjoy quietly reading a book. Also made me realize just how full of sh*t administrative types are.

 

[cielle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sihaya extra-curricular activities treated as academic subjects (art, band, weight-training, sports, etc).

Ha! Half the reason I'm hsing is to spend as much time as we want on extra-currics!

Why is someone's education deficient if they haven't read the LoTR or Shakespeare? Aren't many people here unschoolers? Why must a PS kid hit those if your unschooled child doesn't have to?

 

[Sihaya]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cielle Ha! Half the reason I'm hsing is to spend as much time as we want on extra-currics!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sihaya Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that "non-academic" classes aren't worthwhile.

This goes for extra-currics for homeschoolers too.

I was talking about gym or art as a required class even though a student may have zero interest or ability in that area.

I don't think the OP was saying every child must be doing anything specific. But, if they are in public school, there is much less time for them to do anything of their choosing, whether it be reading LOTR or beating Kingdom Hearts. I would have loved to even have heard of LOTR before the movies came out. Unfortunately, I was a bit preoccupied writing 5-paragraph essays.

ETA: Reading the OP again, I see it was referring to exposure to literature and history. I think the main point is that time spent on spelling drills or lining up is time that can never be regained for reading, not that it is universally vital for every child to read a particular book.

 

[camprunner]

Personally I think they are waiting for other children to decide to behave and want to learn. Public School is not very efficient in the way it handles the learning process.

 

[Itlbokay]

When my kids attended PS? Worksheets, and lots of them. At least that seemed like the bulk of their "work" to me.

One positive, though... my kids would usually finish up way before everyone else did and spent a lot of time reading independently.

Oh, I thought of more. According to my children they spent a lot of time waiting for others to finish their work, waiting for teachers to sort out disciplinary issues, and being bored. The latter being the most frequently complained about.

 

[cielle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itlbokay Oh, I thought of more. According to my children they spent a lot of time waiting for others to finish their work,

Ugh. That is definitely something I remember. Waiting forever for people to finish on worksheets or to finish reading something. And it was awful for both the people who finished first and the people who finished last.

I also think that my teachers did try to get us to read some good stuff, we just weren't into it. Even now I like to read what I like to read and am not terribly interested in the "canon".

 

[Linda on the move]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cielle Why is someone's education deficient if they haven't read the LoTR or Shakespeare?

I didn't say it was. I was simplying wondering how it is possible for a child to spend 6 or 7 hours a day, 180 days a year, for 13 years in a building dedicated to education, and not come out being exposed to a few good books. I didn't mean my post as a List of Books All Kids Should Read. I don't believe in such lists.

Quote:

Aren't many people here unschoolers? Why must a PS kid hit those if your unschooled child doesn't have to?

My unschooled kids don't have to read good literature, they get to. It's a big difference. We just enjoy good books together because it is wonderful to enjoy good books with people you are close to.

For the most part, unschooled kids are avid readers.

What prompted me to ask the question was a hunt for a nice edition of the Odyssey that would be approachable to my kids. They like epics, so I think they would like it. Most of our day is spent mucking around having a good time, and yet they are gradually getting to know the cannon of western literature. It amazes me.

I have a illustrated edition of the Odyssey on hold at the library now

 

[RiverSky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cielle Why is someone's education deficient if they haven't read the LoTR or Shakespeare? Aren't many people here unschoolers? Why must a PS kid hit those if your unschooled child doesn't have to?

Hmmm, my house is filled books, all types of books but very literature heavy. We definitely have LOTR and Shakespeare as well as hundreds of other similar books. I assume that my children will read all of them (my eldest is just 7 but we're working on it

) since I read every book that my parents had in the house while I was growing up. I choose to read excellent literature, it certainly is no chore!

 

[Charles Baudelaire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda on the move I'm not trying to be snarky but I am really wondering how it is that kids can spend all day at school year after year and not be exposed to wonderful literature and interesting history.

Well, to answer your history question, read this book:link.

To answer your second question, find out what language arts readers are being used by your local school.

Both of them will give you a very good answer to your question.

 

[Charles Baudelaire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonconformnmom I'm considering homeschooling and I mentioned it to my friend, who is a college professor and is generally on the somewhat crunchy side, and the first thing she said was, "I don't know. I think there's something to be said for learning how to wait in line."

Yeah. That's why we would all really benefit by living in the former Soviet Union.

 

[Charles Baudelaire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cielle Ha! Half the reason I'm hsing is to spend as much time as we want on extra-currics! Why is someone's education deficient if they haven't read the LoTR or Shakespeare? Aren't many people here unschoolers? Why must a PS kid hit those if your unschooled child doesn't have to?

I'm wearing my biases on my sleeve: I tend to be against unschooling for our family, although I will tentatively accept on faith the idea that it works for other people's families. I'm also one of those cruel, controlling Classical Education people who really does believe that in order to be an "educated" person, there really are some things that, yeah, you need to know and have read.

Anyhoo, in theory, at least, the unschoolers argue that a central facet of their teaching is to encourage their children in doing something I consider to be crucial: to teach them that they can learn. I strongly suspect that an unschooler would argue that a PS student and an unschooler might both "leave school" without having read Shakespeare or LOTR, but the unschooler has one chief advantage: she knows how to learn and loves learning. The same may definitely not be true of the PSer.