[twostraightlines]

I haven't read Unconditional Parenting yet (my library has a copy on hold for me), but have read the article about praise. I agree with the article, but don't know what to say to a toddler, because I really don't think that ds will understand the more elaborate feedback that Kohn suggests. Any ideas?

 

[Robinna]

Hi mamas!
I'm new to GD "theory" and don't get this - what's wrong with saying "good job" (assuming, of course, that you're being honest and not just giving empty praise)? I thought the idea was not to label the child, but that congratulating on a job clearly well done, that the child is pleased with, isn't that. Whassup with that?
Thanks!

 

[annab]

It is a really hard thing for me not to say, "Good job." Mostly because DS is so enthusiastic when he does something that it is contagious, and I just blurt it out. What I TRY to do is comment on the task specifically, "I see you are jumping over the sidewalk." "I see you are sliding without help." However, I think that the exuberance in my voice is = to saying "Good job". Some of the UP moms will probably be able to help sort this out.

Anna B, who is on chapter 2 of UP

 

[moongoddess]

Hi I am new here.

I say things like: "What a great helper you are being!" Or, "Isn't it nice to potty in the toilet so the poop doesn't get all over your bum!" "I like all the colours you used" (in you scribble drawing)

I think kids know when they are doing a "good" job and when you are BS'ing them. It is better to point out the reality of the situation in a gentle way. IMHO.

 

[twostraightlines]

Robinna-

Here is an article that summarizes why some believe praise is not good.

http://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/gj.htm

 

[writermommy]

When you do praise a child, it should be specific praise. "Good Job" like good girl, is general and meaningless. I agree with pp who suggested saying good helper. I'll usually say thanks for helping me clean up the mess. or whatever.

Our first grader has been struggling in school, so we praise her efforts. When she comes home with a good test grade, we can't let it go without acknowleding her. We always praise how hard she worked rather than the grade itself. This sends the message that hard work pays off and effort will get you a better grade on the spelling test. Of course we praise her effort even in the absence of the grade, as the goal is to motivate her to work.

 

[ja mama]

"You did it!"

 

[amybw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ja mama "You did it!"

same here. or maybe a little more specific.

Well, look what you did! You_____
I knew you could do (it)!
You put the toys in the toybox all by yourself!

hope those are acceptable!

Amy

 

[maya44]

I love "Good Job!" I think Alfie Kohn is totally off base on this one, sorry.

 

[oceanbaby]

I say good job quite a bit, and don't have a problem with it in general.

But, I am conscious to not say it all the time, and to try to give specific feedback. I say things like:

You did it!
Wow, that's really pretty.
Yay!
How neat - what kind of train is it?
Thank you so much for helping pick up.
You were really great at the grocery store today - thank you for being so helpful.
I am really proud of the way you shared with your friend today.

 

[Daffodil]

Quote:

Originally Posted by writermommy When you do praise a child, it should be specific praise. "Good Job" like good girl, is general and meaningless.

A lot of people have come across the idea that saying "good job" is a problem, and mistakenly assumed that the problem is that it's not specific enough. But Alfie Kohn argues pretty persuasively (in Punished by Rewards and Unconditional Parenting) that ANY praise that's intended to encourage a child to repeat a behavior can be a problem. It doesn't matter if it's specific or vague.

If my DD is happy and proud about something she did, I'll share in her happiness by saying something like, "You did it!"

If she does something helpful, I generally say, "Thanks" in the same tone I'd use with an adult (not going wild with excitement.)

If she's learning a new skill and I want to let her know when she's doing it right, or when she's achieved the end result I had in mind, I say something like, "Yep, that's right," or "Yes, like that! You did it!"

Often, there's no need to say anything at all about what she's doing. I don't want her to come to expect that everything she does is going to get some comment from me, either positive or negative.

I do show her affection, tell her how much I love her, act delighted to be in her company, etc. all the time. But I try not to use those things as rewards for good behavior. I think she needs them whether she's "good" or "bad."

 

[mother nurture]

New to GD, hope it's ok to post

We live in a time when almost as soon as a chil does something we are saying "Good Job". I haven't read the book, but I have read numerous articles and agree that children are overpraised! In my opinion this takes away from a sense of self-pride in themselves, without the influence of external sources. I try very hard not to say good job, but it does come out so naturally at times.

I think that oceanbaby had some great examples. I have learned more at the local co-op preschool, where I will be working in August that there are many things that can be said instead of good job.

When a child paints a pictures..."look at all the colors that you chose. which is your favorite? i love the way..."

When a child shares with another child..."look at how happy they are that you shared with them. that was so kind."

These are just a couple examples, but I hope they help. I know that for me it is important to give the children, and my dd, opportunities to be proud of themselves, as well as have the opportunity to learn. I definitely am going to check out that book, though!

 

[Eilleen]

My thing with "good job" " good girl" etc is that it sounds so condescending. I wouldn't say it to adults, so why would I say it to children?

 

[amj'smommy]

Quote:

My thing with "good job" " good girl" etc is that it sounds so condescending

I think the tone of voice in which it was said would be what makes it sound condescending.My son is PDD/NOS and we use "Good job" on a daily basis with him as well as using it with our other children. I don't see anything wrong with it if you're using it honestly and not just to brush the child aside with empty praise.

 

[lioralourie]

In my experience, when I lived in the U.S. I remember that "Good job" was often said with this sort of cheerleaderish, totally fake, overblown exuberance...you've heard it.

I in general try to avoid it in favor of more specific things (You did it! and matching the smile of my toddler is one of my biggies). But when I do say "good job" it's said casually, and used for something casual, never for something that we're "working on" or something that I feel is a true accomplishment. Kind of like an "atta girl" and a pat on the bum when she gets down off her highchair.

Maybe that's what gets me about the "good job" tone I've heard so often, it's usually said by well-meaning parents who may not be spending enough calm, real time with their child and so reflexively "maximize" their emotions while around them. It's that hyper "gotta keep it positive" thing. When you only spend a couple of hours a day with a child, it changes the dynamic. I think that "good job" in itself isn't a bad thing necessarily. But it's all in the tone and the dynamic.

 

[~Nikki~]

Quote:

But Alfie Kohn argues pretty persuasively (in Punished by Rewards and Unconditional Parenting) that ANY praise that's intended to encourage a child to repeat a behavior can be a problem. It doesn't matter if it's specific or vague.

Does he say why? Genuinly curious, I haven't read anything by that author.

I've always been under the impression that any praise is good praise. I grew up in a house where I was pretty much ignored when I did "good" things, because I was just expected to do them. So if I went out of my way to do the dishes without being asked, the accomplishment went ignored. All this did was made the negative comments stand out more. I was never ignored if I spilled a drink, or forgot to make my bed. I always felt that it wouldn't have been such a big deal to get in trouble when I slacked, if I was only noticed when I made an effort to help out. I feel the same way now that I'm an adult. For once, I'd love DH to come home and say "Wow, the house looks great! Thanks for cleaning up. Good job!" But maybe I'm just praise deficient. :LOL

I never would have thought that praise could have a negative impact. Is it the way the praise is delivered? Does it have something to do with it becoming "background noise" if it's over-used? I praise my 2 year old a lot, mainly because she completely glows when I do. She seems so proud of herself each time she brings me her empty cup or bowl, or takes something to the garbage. Of course I'd love this behaviour to continue. It's bad enough I have to run around picking up after DH, it's nice to have someone who picks up after herself.

 

[mamazee]

I've just read the book, but I've read this about praise elsewhere also. Praise makes a child do well for external reasons (to make the parents happy) rather than for internal reasons (because it's the right thing to do). It focuses on the child's behavior. When kids think they're accepted and loved for their behavior instead of for just being them, it can cause them to wonder if they're also loved when their behavior isn't so great. That's where the term "unconditional parenting" comes from - communicating to children that they're loved unconditionally. We all love our children unconditionally -- even when they do bad things -- but they might not get that message if they're being punished when they do poorly and/or praised when they're doing well because our focus is so set on their behavior.

 

[philomom]

I don't know about "good job" being not so good. I haven't read the book. But, even a SAHM needs all hands sometimes to get stuff done. Everyone who lives in a house can share the work. Even the breadwinning Daddy can be seen doing dishes here.

My kids are older now and don't always volunteer to help, but they do help without drama when asked.

 

[maya44]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eilleen My thing with "good job" " good girl" etc is that it sounds so condescending. I wouldn't say it to adults, so why would I say it to children?

I wouldn't say "good girl" either but really, you wouldn't say "good job" to an adult?

Where do you work???

At my workplace this would be common (law firm). [Typical exchange: "Hey I just found a case that will defeat the other side's argument" "Hey, GOOD JOB, Man!"

As far as I am aware, not one advanced degree lawyer is insulted by it or finds it condesending. Why do you?

And by the way, there are many industrial psychologists that have strongly challenged Kohn's work, finding it scientifically inaccurate.

PLEASE do not believe that his theories are the only one's out there

 

[mamazee]

I responded in this thread but I didn't answer your question. I say, "You did it!" or in some other way describe what she did rather than pass judgement on it. "Good job" is a judgement. "You used a lot of blue in that picture!" isn't. Asking questions is good too, really just showing interest in general. "You like the color blue?" Also, telling how what the child does effects other people. "I see you cleaned up! When you clean up your toys it makes it easier for me to keep the floor clean."

I still notice myself saying, "Good job" sometimes, but I'm getting better

I really think my daughter responds best to me noticing specifics, showing that I'm really paying attention to what she's done, anyway