[HarperRose]

Every time we take Max to see his dr I find myself realizing that I have MANY of the same traits that have lead to Max's diagnosis of Asperger's.

The one I thought of today was eye contact and lip reading. I have to FORCE myself to look in ppl's eyes. It freaks me out. I noted to the dr., "Oh, yeah, I do that, too." It was just an observation. But she said, "But you also have eye contact." Ok, she's right. But I have to FORCE IT and I only started doing that in the last 10 yrs or so when someone asked me why I always watch their mouth when they talk.

I also flap.

:

Socially, I guess I do ok. I prefer to have just a couple of closer friends, ppl I know I can go hang at their house or whatever and not be in the way. If I'm thrust in a situation, I can mingle, but I much prefer to sit in the back in a corner to observe.

I'm just wondering what other female aspies were like as children and how you are now as adults w/ kids of your own.

 

[JessSC]

I'm not sure, but I wanted to add that my husband has a lot of asperger's symptoms and he, too, has to force himself to make eye contact. Usually, he just doesn't. And people think he comes across as rude.

 

[mama41]

(sigh)

Does it matter? I mean really, does it?

You're you. You seem to have survived to age whatever. Well enough to have a child and health insurance. AS is a broadly descriptive label which doesn't, and cannot change whatever it's labeling. It's a category.

Don't worry about it. If the label is useful for your son in terms of getting him things he needs, great, but again, there's no need to take this terribly seriously. I live in universityland, I've just rented an apt to a young PhD just out of the math dept, we spent the whole apt showing dropping things and making glancing eye contact, and I'm sure he's a very nice and enormously anxious fella who's good at what he does and will pay the rent timely. I will attempt to remember what I've done with the checks and deposit them before his head explodes because the check hasn't yet cleared. Everything is, as they used to say, copacetic.

 

[Individuation]

I'm actually going to answer this at face value, hoping I don't piss of ALL the female aspies. What does AS look like in girls:

Moody and kind of domineering. Unable to deal with change. Generally highly intelligent. More likely to have obsessions that deal with language or the humanities than are men, who are more into machines and parts of objects. Often sort of seem to vacillate between being kind of childlike and being really, really self-possessed. Poor impulse control. Often either a lot of sexual partners, without being terribly conflicted about it in a self-esteem sort of way, or very few, very close sexual partners, or near asexuality. Not a lot of "dating," though, in the way most people seem to do it.

It can be really hard to separate the PTSD from adult female aspies from the actual symptoms of AS, so some manifest symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder (I don't, but I've seen it). Bipolar is another common mis- or co-diagnosis (again, not me, but I've seen it a LOT.)

 

[soso-lynn]

I have Asperger's and I can say that the PP description is pretty good, although there are variations.

You should check out wrongplanet.net

 

[mama41]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justthatgirl I'm just wondering what other female aspies were like as children and how you are now as adults w/ kids of your own.

Oh, I missed this part. I don't like the term "aspies", sounds like a Girl Scout club down at the sanatorium ("Hi! I'm _____, and I'm an Aspie! Who're you?"), but --

You know, I spent some time freaking out about this too, and I think it's not worth it. You do the best you can. Just keep reminding yourself that you can't sink into your own world for more than a few minutes at a time in their company (unless they're busy), find them more social role models, and before you get upset at something they're doing, compare it to what's normal. I find myself getting very upset with how deeply my daughter fears what other people think, and have to remind myself that this is normal, and not necessarily a sign that she's going to grow up unable to take an ethical stand or follow her heart. And you can train the kids to tell you explicitly if they're upset about something. The problem, of course, is that your response may be unsatisfactory to them, but you can try.

If your kid's weird too, though, sounds like you're home free.

 

[soso-lynn]

I forgot I wanted to say that adult Aspies (I dont mind the word) usually have learned to force themselves to appear more 'normal'. The inability to make eye contact is not some sort of physical limitation, it's about comfort, so you can force yourself to do it. I dont think it's usually worth it though.

I also agree with the PP. If you do have it, knowing that might help you get some insight on your behaviors but it really is not a big deal to worry about. I actually think I am a better mother for it.

 

[HarperRose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mama41 (sigh) Does it matter? I mean really, does it? You're you. You seem to have survived to age whatever. Well enough to have a child and health insurance. AS is a broadly descriptive label which doesn't, and cannot change whatever it's labeling. It's a category. Don't worry about it. If the label is useful for your son in terms of getting him things he needs, great, but again, there's no need to take this terribly seriously. I live in universityland, I've just rented an apt to a young PhD just out of the math dept, we spent the whole apt showing dropping things and making glancing eye contact, and I'm sure he's a very nice and enormously anxious fella who's good at what he does and will pay the rent timely. I will attempt to remember what I've done with the checks and deposit them before his head explodes because the check hasn't yet cleared. Everything is, as they used to say, copacetic.

Why the sigh? I'm asking because it's my life and I wanna know.

My oldest is on the spectrum and the more I think about it the more I wonder if my dd or I are also on the spectrum.

I'm just looking for info.

And actually, no, we don't have health insurance, we're self employed.

Additionally, how can I know what's "normal" if I don't feel normal myself, if I don't think I'm normal?

 

[HarperRose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by soso-lynn I have Asperger's and I can say that the PP description is pretty good, although there are variations. You should check out wrongplanet.net

I think I will. I've looked through it a bit, but not extensively. It's not as orderly as I prefer.

 

[HarperRose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by soso-lynn I also agree with the PP. If you do have it, knowing that might help you get some insight on your behaviors but it really is not a big deal to worry about. I actually think I am a better mother for it.

Right, and this is my point. I wanna get a better picture for myself. I don't necessarily *need* a dx, I just would like to know if there's something more to me than just being weird. You know?

Since I have used it as an example from the OP, I'll continue:
I feel insanely uncomfortable looking ppl in the eye. It freaks me out and I told my dh, who was upset that I couldn't look him in the eye during a tender moment, "It hurts!" Somehow I just can't handle it. I forcibly sit there looking ppl in the eye wondering, "Am I blinking enough? When can I look away? Am I blinking too much? I'm blinking too much. I hate this. I have to stop. Can I stop yet?" I just want to close my eyes and retreat, go hide.

When I was a kid, I was always the friendless weird one, the socially inept. But I kind of picked up on stuff a little bit as I got older. Thankfully I have a mother and aunts with some good social skills and I learn quickly.

Hala, your initial paragraph fit me spot-on. (As for sexuality, only one partner, I married him, and we're not as active as he'd like us to be. I just don't have the interest.)

Your point about PTSD was also interesting because I know without a doubt that I have that. However, I wonder if all my life it was PTSD (grew up w/ abusive bi-polar parents) or if it was ptsd/trauma/Asperger's.

do you know what I mean?

 

[thebarkingbird]

i keep reading these descriptions and they sound just like me and my dh as well as a couple of the men with whom i have been very close. it makes sense. also, the labels can be terribly important to a person who likes seeing things within the framework of a classification system. of course i know that any classification system is, essentially an illusion and that systems for classifying people are more that way than most kinds. the idea of knowing where you fit into that system though can help a person look for patterns. knowing "where i fit" would not be limiting to me. it would be helpful. i can look to other people who fit more or less in the same place and ask them how they deal with things. you can look at research conducted on or with people who share many traits essential to your personality and see if there are any broad patterns you might like to look to as "normal for you". that is terribly important to people and if you've spent your whole life feeling like a freak then it becomes more important. the reason i have considered trying to find a psyc to eval. me is that i really can't find a group of people "like me" of course we know that nobody actuially is the prototypical mother but having a picture of her gives us something to look to, to examine, and to point to "i am a mother. i am that... kinda" if you feel that you are very different from the prototypical person in terms of emotional reactions, basic preferences, kinds of interests, and your manner of pursuing happiness then trying to find a loose label can be of great importance.

note, of all my smoking buddies (cigarettes. we go outside between classes.) at school there is a man i like more than most. people thought i was flirting him because i seem to look him in the eyes more than any other man, even my husband. today i realized it's because i've never seen him without sunglasses

 

[HarperRose]

Thank you, BB, that is exactly what is in my head.

 

[Individuation]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justthatgirl Hala, your initial paragraph fit me spot-on. (As for sexuality, only one partner, I married him, and we're not as active as he'd like us to be. I just don't have the interest.) Your point about PTSD was also interesting because I know without a doubt that I have that. However, I wonder if all my life it was PTSD (grew up w/ abusive bi-polar parents) or if it was ptsd/trauma/Asperger's. do you know what I mean?

Yup. Grew up with my own bipolar nightmare of a parent. For a few years I was convinced I was bipolar, partly because I briefly saw a therapist who diagnosed every attractive woman who walked into his office as a comorbid bipolar/borderline. Seriously. I met his other patients, all the pretty girls had that diagnosis. Woman issues much?

Interestingly, the drug cocktails I've been on since the AS diagnosis (generally some combination of Wellbutrin/Adderall/Zoloft/Provigil) would send anyone with the slightest tendency towards bipolar into shrieking, spiraling mania. For me, they just about jolt me out of the executive dysfunction, and I'm choosing to sacrifice a bit more sensory sensitivity/proneness to meltdowns for the ability to focus and execute tasks, because I'm an adult and can do that. I doubt a parent would say "Oh, more sensory defensiveness and less interest in socializing? But he'll have an easier time pursuing his special interests? Sign me up!" However, I've seen adult auties make that choice all the time.

 

[HarperRose]

How old were you when you got dx'd w/ AS?

I'm on Lexapro because of anxiety. I haven't sought further diagnosis yet but haven't really given it much further thought until recently.

 

[Individuation]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justthatgirl How old were you when you got dx'd w/ AS?

27 (5 years ago). However, it had been mentioned earlier, just wasn't official. The first psychologist to mention something with "Asperger" in the name (in 1994) thought AS was a personality disorder that looked like autism--it wasn't even in the DSM at the time. I was actually the first person I ever knew to have this diagnosis--I didn't really know anything about it until it was applied to me. I never thought it would be so well-known that anyone would ever have any idea what I was talking about; I remember people laughing at the name when I tried to broach the subject with them

 

[HarperRose]

Oh, wow.

How was it for you in school? Did you feel out of place a lot? Wanting to be friends but nobody wanting to be your friend? Not understanding why? Did you sit toward the back of the room, hoping to be invisible so you could just observe? One day, when school first began in 8th grade, the teacher asked a question but nobody would respond. The teacher saw me mouth the number 4 and he tried to make me comment. I could not do it. I literally could not make my mouth open up and speak.

I also needed order but couldn't make order for myself. I feel like I get overwhelmed very quickly and can't fix it. The lack of order in the house drives me nuts. Today at the zoo there was a lot of chaos and noise in one of the exhibits (an enclosed exhibit, aquarium-like) and dh was asking me a question but I couldn't respond. My brain shut down until I could get out of the exhibit.

I have a lot of sensory issues, too.

Oh, yeah, and I tend to just blurt things out. I've been told I have no brain-mouth filter.

 

[Individuation]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justthatgirl I also needed order but couldn't make order for myself. I feel like I get overwhelmed very quickly and can't fix it. The lack of order in the house drives me nuts. Today at the zoo there was a lot of chaos and noise in one of the exhibits (an enclosed exhibit, aquarium-like) and dh was asking me a question but I couldn't respond. My brain shut down until I could get out of the exhibit.

Definitely. That's sort of why the cocktail of meds--to give me the ability to create some order, as opposed to getting kind of... paralyzed?

I have a pretty long list of things I just don't do anymore, that I used to try to do (ride subways, go to movies, things like that) which I tend not to make a big deal of because it makes a lot of people think that my life just isn't worth living if I don't do these things and it's so sad that I don't, while I just love being an adult because I can call the shots and just never go to a movie again.

I find (and this is just me) that there's a trade-off. If I'm very "high-functioning" in terms of work/energy/intellectual pursuits, such as getting lots of schoolwork done and making and keeping non-social plans, I tend to be seriously "low-functioning" in a dealing-with-people way and more sensitive to overstimulation and my environment. On the other hand, when I make the effort (as I did for most of my 20s) to sort of "de-autistify," I'm pretty much useless as far as accomplishing anything, because all my energy is going into, I guess, passing.

A quick example. I had a party in January (a real one, people over and everything, mostly because I thought my husband and daughter would like it and we'd never done anything like that before), after taking a semester off. I could NEVER have done something like that during a time I was actively engaged in academic work, I would be way too non-social.

I sometimes wonder if parents think about that, when they are doing so much social-skills training--that maybe the effort they're teaching their child to put into eye contact and the like will one day be taking up the energy he might have been able to put into composing or computers or something. I mean, whichever way you slice it, we're going to be crappy socializers; we may, however, get very good at the things we're good at--if allowed to.*

*Obligatory disclaimer: not knocking ALL therapies here, therapies can be good and I've had them. Just questioning if the baby doesn't get thrown out with the bathwater sometimes (isn't that a lovely expression?)

ETA: JTG, we've totally thread-jacked. Email me if you'd like!

 

[HarperRose]

Major thread-jack of my own thread. ha!

I will email you soon.

I just read a BUNCH of threads on wrongplanet and WOW if every one didn't describe me.

I thought I was a FREAK for not liking the phone. Turns out I'm not alone.

Ok, Max is yelling for reasons not understood by me... Must go find out.

 

[Brigianna]

I don't know enough autistic women well enough to notice any particular patterns (IRL I know one, and she's my niece). But in my own case...
as a young child I was quite oblivious to other people, but later took an interest in them not as peers but as subjects of observation (I attribute this mostly to the influence of my people-watching father who taught me almost all of what I do know about nonverbal communication). I never had the raging, screaming, tantruming that is often associated with autistic children. I just got very quiet. I was actually very obedient and put great effort into doing what was expected of me, though I was often unsuccessful. I took more and more interest in people as I got older. I have never been good with eye contact but I have learned to look at the mouth and kind of fake it.

As an adult, it's harder to tell because I have various other conditions as well, but, for the most part, I live a very closed-off life; I have my children and my husband and my books and my computer and no ambitions. I vacillate between completely non-communicative and excessively oversharing. I still have certain autistic mannerisms but I exhibit them in private.

I tend to have a short attention span and have difficulty focusing enough to accomplish much conventional work, though this is not entirely due to autism. I am a sahm but not particularly good at it. I did fairly well in school and college largely because of talent in reading, memorization, and test-taking, but without much ability for long-term recall of information or, still less, skills.

Hmm... this is probably not very helpful to you. Do you have some more specific questions? I am better at those.

 

[Nature]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Individuation I'm actually going to answer this at face value, hoping I don't piss of ALL the female aspies. What does AS look like in girls: Moody and kind of domineering. Unable to deal with change. Generally highly intelligent. More likely to have obsessions that deal with language or the humanities than are men, who are more into machines and parts of objects. Often sort of seem to vacillate between being kind of childlike and being really, really self-possessed. Poor impulse control. Often either a lot of sexual partners, without being terribly conflicted about it in a self-esteem sort of way, or very few, very close sexual partners, or near asexuality. Not a lot of "dating," though, in the way most people seem to do it. It can be really hard to separate the PTSD from adult female aspies from the actual symptoms of AS, so some manifest symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder (I don't, but I've seen it). Bipolar is another common mis- or co-diagnosis (again, not me, but I've seen it a LOT.)

I just wanted to tell you that this fit me totally. Unbelievably and completely. I was also mis-diagnosed as Bipolar, Borderline Personality, PTSD, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, and Panic and Anxiety Disorder with Agoraphobia. The only dx that seems to hold true after my Asperger diagnosis a few months ago (at age 29) is OCD.

My oldest daughter age 9 has traits of Asperger's and OCD, but no dx. She tests gifted. My 4 yo dd has Asperger's. My dh has a dx of Bipolar, ADD, and as a child dx'd childhood schizophrenic. We know now he is un dx's Aspie and not schizophrenic.