Something I did notice this morning... She seems to be doing it about the same time that MY flow of milk slows/stops... So even though she's getting milk from the lact-aid, she may not be getting as much as fast because MY flow has stopped or slowed.. Hrmm.... *lightbulb*
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This is really common at this age, I think, even in babies who are exclusively fed at the breast. It's the way they increase supply. I think that despite the supplement, it very well might BE a flow issues. All of mine did it.
What happens is baby starts to get impatient with slow flow. They're happy when you're letting down, but when the flow slows, they get ticked and want it to start again. Believe it or not, the popping on and off can elicit another letdown, and babies figure that out. (They'll also figure out all kinds of other weird stuff that will elicit letdown-- twiddling the other nipple, kicking, thrashing, and all kinds of other annoying habits!
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). Over time, if you tolerate the habit, as baby keeps insisting on subsequent letdowns, your boobs will get the message to make more, and your supply will increase. It's a habit you'll see a lot during growth spurts, for instance. Newborns just go to sleep when the flow slows, but older babies are more active in their pursuit of MORE.
Now the situation is complicated if you're supplementing. I don't know why you are-- I assume it's necessary, and that you have a solid reason for doing it. Are you supplementing with hopes of weaning from supplements, or is this a permanent situation? I don't know what pace feeding means, so I'm sorry if what I'm saying is not appropriate in the light of that.
I also know that nipple confusion and preference can develop at any age, and that if babies are latching poorly, or supply is an issue, bottles can exacerbate the problem. I would really seriously consider discontinuing bottles, if you can, until you feel like nursing is going very well. If you must give one, give it in the early evenings, not at night-- the middle of the night is the peak time for milk productions. Not nursing at that time is a bad idea for your milk supply, IMO.
Both of my twins were, at one time or other, supplemented with an SNS. I haven't used a Lact-aid, but I assume it's similar-- a tube running alongside your own nipple, right? Can the flow be shut off and then turned on again? Have you tried turning it off during your active letdown, and then turning it on again once the flow from your own breasts slows? I used to do that-- baby's time at the breast increases, leading to longer feedings. But the added stimulation is good for your supply.
Switch nursing can help, too-- when baby pops off, switch sides. This might mean you're using both sides multiple times during a feeding-- this is very good for supply, since often once baby switches sides, letdown will happen again. Each subsequent letdown is fattier and creamier than the one that came before. And the more letdowns baby is stimulating, the more your breasts will get the message to make more.
What happens is baby starts to get impatient with slow flow. They're happy when you're letting down, but when the flow slows, they get ticked and want it to start again. Believe it or not, the popping on and off can elicit another letdown, and babies figure that out. (They'll also figure out all kinds of other weird stuff that will elicit letdown-- twiddling the other nipple, kicking, thrashing, and all kinds of other annoying habits!
Now the situation is complicated if you're supplementing. I don't know why you are-- I assume it's necessary, and that you have a solid reason for doing it. Are you supplementing with hopes of weaning from supplements, or is this a permanent situation? I don't know what pace feeding means, so I'm sorry if what I'm saying is not appropriate in the light of that.
I also know that nipple confusion and preference can develop at any age, and that if babies are latching poorly, or supply is an issue, bottles can exacerbate the problem. I would really seriously consider discontinuing bottles, if you can, until you feel like nursing is going very well. If you must give one, give it in the early evenings, not at night-- the middle of the night is the peak time for milk productions. Not nursing at that time is a bad idea for your milk supply, IMO.
Both of my twins were, at one time or other, supplemented with an SNS. I haven't used a Lact-aid, but I assume it's similar-- a tube running alongside your own nipple, right? Can the flow be shut off and then turned on again? Have you tried turning it off during your active letdown, and then turning it on again once the flow from your own breasts slows? I used to do that-- baby's time at the breast increases, leading to longer feedings. But the added stimulation is good for your supply.
Switch nursing can help, too-- when baby pops off, switch sides. This might mean you're using both sides multiple times during a feeding-- this is very good for supply, since often once baby switches sides, letdown will happen again. Each subsequent letdown is fattier and creamier than the one that came before. And the more letdowns baby is stimulating, the more your breasts will get the message to make more.
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I don't think we'll ever wean from supplementing. I have IGT (suspected anyway) and have had low supply pretty much from the start.
Switch nursing is incredibly hard to do. I DO switch once during feeds usually but anything more than that and my breast tissue will be breaking out. The tape often already causes blood blisters on the breast tissue but if I were taking it off and on several times a feeding, it would be even more painful. She often does get 2 let downs, just simply by popping on and off like she does.
I pumped the last 2 nights she got bottles. The first night I was puking, last night I simply didn't have enough Lact-Aid's to nurse that feeding. I pumped while I fed her (pumped one side while I warmed the bottle, the other while I was feeding her) and expressed 2.5 oz and then ran out of room in the bottle. That's ALOT for me, I'm lucky to get 2 oz a pumping!
I can start and stop the flow however I don't know when I'm having a letdown, unless she pops off. My LC recommended that we not wait until she gets mad to start the lact-aid flow. I kind of agree as we don't want her to associate the breast with not meeting her needs. She already spends about 15-20 min on each breast as it is, which is average for a nursing.
Thanks! I started thinking it was pretty normal. I've been thinking about how my friends baby is when she nurses. She doesn't pop on and off but she kind of jerks her head around. I think she's trying to get another letdown when she does that. Bella just pops off instead... and kicks and thrashes her arms around, lol.
This is all new to me! I formula fed my DS (relactated at 6 months for him) so I'm not used to nursing behavior. But what you are saying makes sense.
Originally Posted by Llyra  This is really common at this age, I think, even in babies who are exclusively fed at the breast. It's the way they increase supply. I think that despite the supplement, it very well might BE a flow issues. All of mine did it. What happens is baby starts to get impatient with slow flow. They're happy when you're letting down, but when the flow slows, they get ticked and want it to start again. Believe it or not, the popping on and off can elicit another letdown, and babies figure that out. (They'll also figure out all kinds of other weird stuff that will elicit letdown-- twiddling the other nipple, kicking, thrashing, and all kinds of other annoying habits!
Now the situation is complicated if you're supplementing. I don't know why you are-- I assume it's necessary, and that you have a solid reason for doing it. Are you supplementing with hopes of weaning from supplements, or is this a permanent situation? I don't know what pace feeding means, so I'm sorry if what I'm saying is not appropriate in the light of that. I also know that nipple confusion and preference can develop at any age, and that if babies are latching poorly, or supply is an issue, bottles can exacerbate the problem. I would really seriously consider discontinuing bottles, if you can, until you feel like nursing is going very well. If you must give one, give it in the early evenings, not at night-- the middle of the night is the peak time for milk productions. Not nursing at that time is a bad idea for your milk supply, IMO. Both of my twins were, at one time or other, supplemented with an SNS. I haven't used a Lact-aid, but I assume it's similar-- a tube running alongside your own nipple, right? Can the flow be shut off and then turned on again? Have you tried turning it off during your active letdown, and then turning it on again once the flow from your own breasts slows? I used to do that-- baby's time at the breast increases, leading to longer feedings. But the added stimulation is good for your supply. Switch nursing can help, too-- when baby pops off, switch sides. This might mean you're using both sides multiple times during a feeding-- this is very good for supply, since often once baby switches sides, letdown will happen again. Each subsequent letdown is fattier and creamier than the one that came before. And the more letdowns baby is stimulating, the more your breasts will get the message to make more. |
Switch nursing is incredibly hard to do. I DO switch once during feeds usually but anything more than that and my breast tissue will be breaking out. The tape often already causes blood blisters on the breast tissue but if I were taking it off and on several times a feeding, it would be even more painful. She often does get 2 let downs, just simply by popping on and off like she does.
I pumped the last 2 nights she got bottles. The first night I was puking, last night I simply didn't have enough Lact-Aid's to nurse that feeding. I pumped while I fed her (pumped one side while I warmed the bottle, the other while I was feeding her) and expressed 2.5 oz and then ran out of room in the bottle. That's ALOT for me, I'm lucky to get 2 oz a pumping!
I can start and stop the flow however I don't know when I'm having a letdown, unless she pops off. My LC recommended that we not wait until she gets mad to start the lact-aid flow. I kind of agree as we don't want her to associate the breast with not meeting her needs. She already spends about 15-20 min on each breast as it is, which is average for a nursing.
Thanks! I started thinking it was pretty normal. I've been thinking about how my friends baby is when she nurses. She doesn't pop on and off but she kind of jerks her head around. I think she's trying to get another letdown when she does that. Bella just pops off instead... and kicks and thrashes her arms around, lol.
This is all new to me! I formula fed my DS (relactated at 6 months for him) so I'm not used to nursing behavior. But what you are saying makes sense.
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Quote:
I get your situation better now. I was always very aware of letting down-- the feeling is intense for me, and the babies' sucking patterns always changed dramatically when it happened. But I know that some women don't feel it at all, so yeah, that would make it harder to start and stop the supplement at the right time. 'Cause I agree with your LC not to wait until the baby gets upset.
Have you experimented with something other than the tape you have? If you tape further back, so that the tape is not going into baby's mouth, you can use ordinary cellophane tape or masking tape, if the skin-tape is irritating. Does the tubing itself irritate your skin? I used to get terrible marks on my areolae from it, especially with DS because he clamped down on the tubing sometimes.
I always had the SNS with two tubes, so that I had a tube taped to each side from the start, so that switching back and forth was as simple as just doing it. But like I said, I've never used a Lact-aid. You have to tape it and then untape it and move it to switch sides? That's a pain in the neck, I'm sure.
I can totally understand not nursing when you're puking-- sure, yeah, I'd let somebody give a bottle in that situation of course.
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I didn't mean to imply you did wrong. But I'm puzzled why you'd give a bottle just because there was no Lact-aid clean, and pump instead-- wouldn't you nurse first, without the Lact-aid since you didn't have one, and then just give the bottle afterward if baby wasn't satisfied?
You know, too, that you don't necessarily have to clean the Lact-aid every single time you nurse. Just put it in the refrigerator, the whole thing tubes and all, after a feed, and then you only have to warm the tubing (so you don't have the freezing cold on your tender breasts!) and refill it, to feed again. You can do that once or twice with each one before you have to wash it, especially if you're nursing again within an hour or two. I wouldn't try it with a brand-new newborn, or a baby with immune issues, but with a healthy baby I wouldn't hesitate. That can save some washing. You can do it with pump parts, too.
But anyway. It's so hard, I know, the supplementing and pumping and all the rest of it. I remember how much I HATED the SNS, when DS was using it, and how glad I was to be done with it once we had our issues resolved. I can't imagine committing to it long-term. I think it's wonderful that you're working so hard to be able to nurse your LO.
And I do think the popping off and thrashing and all that are typical, so probably you should just keep doing what you're doing.
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Originally Posted by sattygirl99 I don't think we'll ever wean from supplementing. I have IGT (suspected anyway) and have had low supply pretty much from the start. Switch nursing is incredibly hard to do. I DO switch once during feeds usually but anything more than that and my breast tissue will be breaking out. The tape often already causes blood blisters on the breast tissue but if I were taking it off and on several times a feeding, it would be even more painful. She often does get 2 let downs, just simply by popping on and off like she does. I pumped the last 2 nights she got bottles. The first night I was puking, last night I simply didn't have enough Lact-Aid's to nurse that feeding. I pumped while I fed her (pumped one side while I warmed the bottle, the other while I was feeding her) and expressed 2.5 oz and then ran out of room in the bottle. That's ALOT for me, I'm lucky to get 2 oz a pumping! I can start and stop the flow however I don't know when I'm having a letdown, unless she pops off. My LC recommended that we not wait until she gets mad to start the lact-aid flow. I kind of agree as we don't want her to associate the breast with not meeting her needs. She already spends about 15-20 min on each breast as it is, which is average for a nursing. Thanks! I started thinking it was pretty normal. I've been thinking about how my friends baby is when she nurses. She doesn't pop on and off but she kind of jerks her head around. I think she's trying to get another letdown when she does that. Bella just pops off instead... and kicks and thrashes her arms around, lol. This is all new to me! I formula fed my DS (relactated at 6 months for him) so I'm not used to nursing behavior. But what you are saying makes sense. |
Have you experimented with something other than the tape you have? If you tape further back, so that the tape is not going into baby's mouth, you can use ordinary cellophane tape or masking tape, if the skin-tape is irritating. Does the tubing itself irritate your skin? I used to get terrible marks on my areolae from it, especially with DS because he clamped down on the tubing sometimes.
I always had the SNS with two tubes, so that I had a tube taped to each side from the start, so that switching back and forth was as simple as just doing it. But like I said, I've never used a Lact-aid. You have to tape it and then untape it and move it to switch sides? That's a pain in the neck, I'm sure.
I can totally understand not nursing when you're puking-- sure, yeah, I'd let somebody give a bottle in that situation of course.
You know, too, that you don't necessarily have to clean the Lact-aid every single time you nurse. Just put it in the refrigerator, the whole thing tubes and all, after a feed, and then you only have to warm the tubing (so you don't have the freezing cold on your tender breasts!) and refill it, to feed again. You can do that once or twice with each one before you have to wash it, especially if you're nursing again within an hour or two. I wouldn't try it with a brand-new newborn, or a baby with immune issues, but with a healthy baby I wouldn't hesitate. That can save some washing. You can do it with pump parts, too.
But anyway. It's so hard, I know, the supplementing and pumping and all the rest of it. I remember how much I HATED the SNS, when DS was using it, and how glad I was to be done with it once we had our issues resolved. I can't imagine committing to it long-term. I think it's wonderful that you're working so hard to be able to nurse your LO.
And I do think the popping off and thrashing and all that are typical, so probably you should just keep doing what you're doing.
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LOL. I really wasn't thinking at 2:30 in the morning! When you said it that way it was kinda like 'duh!'... Oh well.
The lact-aid is a bit different than the Medela. You don't really 'refill' it. It's a whole new bag. The system works much better when it's clean between uses. That's why I have 8 setups, lol. I have enough to nurse through an entire day without having to clean them.
The Lact-Aid is just one tube, so you'd have to tape, untape, swtich, tape, untape, switch, etc. The tubing occasionally irritates me, not so much anymore. My nipples are so used to the abuse (she sometimes has a shallow latch so they are used to being really abused) that I don't even feel it anymore. She was kinda chewing on me earlier (another sign of teething, oy vey!) and my friend said 'honey, she's like gnawing on your nipple! Doesn't that hurt?!', I didn't even notice it. My nipples are so desensitized now. I'm guessing that's normal after 14 weeks of nursing? It's not so much the tape itself that bothers me, it's the tearing it off 8 plus times a day. It really tears up the skin. I try to move the tube around so that I'm taping in different parts but there is only so much breast tissue to tape it to, lol. I actually DO tape pretty far back... Only sometimes the tape goes into her mouth but usually I try to tape at the top of my areola vs closer to the nipple. Sometimes I think it'd be easier to tape closer to the nipple but I'd rather her not have the tape in her mouth because of the adhesive.
Thanks mama! Sometimes I think I'm nuts for using a supplementer with long term intentions... But I believe in breastfeeding and extended breastfeeding. I want to nurse my baby until SHE's ready to give it up. And maybe when she's older (over the age of 1) and taking enough solids to sustain herself, we won't need it anymore. But until then, I'm committed to breastfeeding her, regardless of what that entails. I've come too far to step back now... Though I have days where I hate it (the supplementing) but I love how happy she is after nursing. The smiles, the cuddles, how she smiles when DH asks her if she wants her boob... I wouldn't trade it for the world.
Originally Posted by Llyra I get your situation better now. I was always very aware of letting down-- the feeling is intense for me, and the babies' sucking patterns always changed dramatically when it happened. But I know that some women don't feel it at all, so yeah, that would make it harder to start and stop the supplement at the right time. 'Cause I agree with your LC not to wait until the baby gets upset. Have you experimented with something other than the tape you have? If you tape further back, so that the tape is not going into baby's mouth, you can use ordinary cellophane tape or masking tape, if the skin-tape is irritating. Does the tubing itself irritate your skin? I used to get terrible marks on my areolae from it, especially with DS because he clamped down on the tubing sometimes. I always had the SNS with two tubes, so that I had a tube taped to each side from the start, so that switching back and forth was as simple as just doing it. But like I said, I've never used a Lact-aid. You have to tape it and then untape it and move it to switch sides? That's a pain in the neck, I'm sure. I can totally understand not nursing when you're puking-- sure, yeah, I'd let somebody give a bottle in that situation of course.
You know, too, that you don't necessarily have to clean the Lact-aid every single time you nurse. Just put it in the refrigerator, the whole thing tubes and all, after a feed, and then you only have to warm the tubing (so you don't have the freezing cold on your tender breasts!) and refill it, to feed again. You can do that once or twice with each one before you have to wash it, especially if you're nursing again within an hour or two. I wouldn't try it with a brand-new newborn, or a baby with immune issues, but with a healthy baby I wouldn't hesitate. That can save some washing. You can do it with pump parts, too. But anyway. It's so hard, I know, the supplementing and pumping and all the rest of it. I remember how much I HATED the SNS, when DS was using it, and how glad I was to be done with it once we had our issues resolved. I can't imagine committing to it long-term. I think it's wonderful that you're working so hard to be able to nurse your LO. And I do think the popping off and thrashing and all that are typical, so probably you should just keep doing what you're doing.
|
The lact-aid is a bit different than the Medela. You don't really 'refill' it. It's a whole new bag. The system works much better when it's clean between uses. That's why I have 8 setups, lol. I have enough to nurse through an entire day without having to clean them.
The Lact-Aid is just one tube, so you'd have to tape, untape, swtich, tape, untape, switch, etc. The tubing occasionally irritates me, not so much anymore. My nipples are so used to the abuse (she sometimes has a shallow latch so they are used to being really abused) that I don't even feel it anymore. She was kinda chewing on me earlier (another sign of teething, oy vey!) and my friend said 'honey, she's like gnawing on your nipple! Doesn't that hurt?!', I didn't even notice it. My nipples are so desensitized now. I'm guessing that's normal after 14 weeks of nursing? It's not so much the tape itself that bothers me, it's the tearing it off 8 plus times a day. It really tears up the skin. I try to move the tube around so that I'm taping in different parts but there is only so much breast tissue to tape it to, lol. I actually DO tape pretty far back... Only sometimes the tape goes into her mouth but usually I try to tape at the top of my areola vs closer to the nipple. Sometimes I think it'd be easier to tape closer to the nipple but I'd rather her not have the tape in her mouth because of the adhesive.
Thanks mama! Sometimes I think I'm nuts for using a supplementer with long term intentions... But I believe in breastfeeding and extended breastfeeding. I want to nurse my baby until SHE's ready to give it up. And maybe when she's older (over the age of 1) and taking enough solids to sustain herself, we won't need it anymore. But until then, I'm committed to breastfeeding her, regardless of what that entails. I've come too far to step back now... Though I have days where I hate it (the supplementing) but I love how happy she is after nursing. The smiles, the cuddles, how she smiles when DH asks her if she wants her boob... I wouldn't trade it for the world.
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