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My son is currently in a school that has a pull out program starting 2nd grade. Right now he is in Kinder. I have not seen the usefulness of IQ testing for him as of yet, but I did have the Peabody Individual Achievement Test administered to him so we could determine at what grade level he was performing. I thought that might help us figure out what to do with him. Turns out he's almost 4th grade for math and almost 6th grade fore reading. Basically nothing fell below grade3.9 except for 1 subject at grade 1.9.<br>
I am inclined to homeschool at this point but I'd like to hear about everything!<br><br>
I am wondering, is being pulled out once per week enough stimulation for your gifted child? I am assuming that the rest of the week's instruction is the at the usual grade level.<br>
Do these students then receive homework in both GT areas and the usual grade level stuff?<br><br>
Please share your experience!<br>
Amy
 

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My daughter is in kindy this year. She is at about the same ability level. After a LOT of arguing with the district, she has had a once a week pull out with the gifted coordinator, and is going to the 1st grade every day for reading. In my opinion, it isn't enough. She really is not being challenged, is not being engaged, and is not getting enough. My hope is to have her grade skipped at the end of this year to 2nd grade. Honestly, though, I think this is just a bandaid. In our district, K and 1st is in one school, and 2nd-5th is split up between two other schools. Unfortunately, the school has been fighting us every step of the way. Rather than having a collaborative effort, they have been really trying to deny DD's needs. It's been a frustrating and exhausting year, as a consequence. We are to the point where if she is not skipped, we will homeschool next year.
 

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A weekly gifted pull out program will likely be completely insufficient for a child who is that advanced. The only pull out program we've ever found to work reasonably well was having the kids go to a GT class daily in replacement of the normal reading class, for instance. For my oldest, skipping a grade also worked well. If you are in a position to homeschool, that also sounds like a good idea in your instance.
 

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Well this is not recent experience but I had a pull-out GT class in Elementary school. It was one day a week for the entire day. The rest of the time I had the same curriculum that all the other students did.<br><br>
I hated school, but at least the day of gifted made one day bearable. I was an entirely different kid on those days.<br>
All the teachers I had during the three years I was in the GT program were very hostile towards the gifted kids. Granted this was back in the eighties (I'm old), but the prevailing attitude seemed to be that we were whiney slackers who were allowed a day off when everyone else had to work. Now that I myself am a teacher I find this attitude persists among my collegues. Sadly many teachers think bright students should just suck it up because its easier on the system, so I am not suprised that the school is fighting a PP not to skip her kid.<br><br>
So ultimately in my experience a pull-out program is better than nothing but in reality is a curriculur band-aid to a non-differentiated program.
 

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He's in K, and reading at a 6th grade level and doing 4th grade math, and the pull-out program doesn't even start in 2nd grade.<br><br>
How on earth is a once a week pull-out program that starts 2 years from now possibly going to challenge him?<br><br>
The reality of the situation is that strong advocation will be needed to insure he is getting an appropriate education.<br><br><br>
I was in a pull-out program. It was fun, but it was simply fun.<br>
My kids are in self-contained gifted classrooms. Despite the flaws in the program, we are lucky.<br><br>
Tammy
 

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This <a href="http://www.proteacher.net/discussions/showthread.php?t=243678" target="_blank">post</a> from Wednesday this week might be helpful as far as teacher attitudes towards those in the gifted program.<br><br>
My personal experience in the program when I was in school was that it was a time for them to let us color, do Future Problem Solvers and ease their guilt that they really weren't doing anything for us. We're homeschooling our kids.
 

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My DD has good experiences with GT pullout. It's well done at her school. However, she's in 6th grade. This thread:<br><a href="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=1219049" target="_blank">http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1219049</a><br>
has an interesting side conversation about the need for differentation as kids get older.<br><br>
<<Do these students then receive homework in both GT areas and the usual grade level stuff?>><br><br>
I'm sure this varies by school. DD does have less time to complete her work at school, but she is wicked smart so that really isn't a big deal. She does get "homework" from the gifted program, but it is interesting, project based work that she really enjoys. If a child has a problem with it, then they most likely shouldn't be in the program. It is for kids who find regular school work easy and enjoy learning. Gifted program isn't graded or required, so if they kids don't want to do it, they don't have to.<br><br>
The other thing that makes a HUGE difference is what is going on in the school room the rest of the time. Is it dynamic, fun, and intersting? Or is it busy work? Much of my DD's regular class work is very fun to her. She has a great teacher. They do tons of science experiments, social studies projects, etc. It's a cool class. The provide differenation for math instruction (not as part of the gifted program, but school wide).<br><br>
My DD's teachers have all liked her. A lot. One of her teacher suggested the gifted program for her, another teacher has put her name forward to be a peer mentor next year, etc. Of course, if my DD were told that she needed to get something done early, she would. That's the kind of student she is.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>abcdefg</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15359379"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">This <a href="http://www.proteacher.net/discussions/showthread.php?t=243678" target="_blank">post</a> from Wednesday this week might be helpful as far as teacher attitudes towards those in the gifted program.<br><br>
My personal experience in the program when I was in school was that it was a time for them to let us color, do Future Problem Solvers and ease their guilt that they really weren't doing anything for us. We're homeschooling our kids.</div>
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Wow. Very interesting link. I think in homeschooling you can avoid all that. My son can do work at what ever grade level he is comfortable while none of his buddies have to be made aware. Score a point for homeschooling for us.
 

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The first mistake most schools make is making the pull-out the ONLY accomodation for the gifted child. The second mistake is to require the child to make up work they miss while in their pull-out giving them twice as much work as the other children. Pull-outs in general do not work for this reason.<br><br>
That said, my DS (9 and in 4th grade) is in a pull-out situation that is working very well. For starters, he's in a full Spanish Immersion school where the academics are about 1 years accelerated from the nieghboring schools. They move rapidly through the material because everyone essentially has a Mandarin pull-out 3 days a week and they just don't have as much class time. On top of that, my DS has GATE pull-out twice a week. The pull-out is in TV/Film production. These kids run the school news program. They have learned all about cameras, camera shots, digital editing of sound and video, stop motion animation, how to conduct an interview, media history, ect. He does not have to make-up work that he misses and he doesn't need to to remain a top student. It's been a very successful model for my DS.<br><br>
I ran a reading pull-out when DD my was in 2nd through 3rd grade. It wasn't for gifted children. It was for advanced readers. We did reader's theatre twice a week. The kids and parents loved it and it gave my DD a chance to be with kids who weren't still learning to read. I will say, my DD went through most of elementary without a formal gifted program and I think she actually benefitted from it. She's very highly gifted and wouldn't have fit in most regular gifted programs any way. However, with grade acceleration, additional subject acceelration and in-class differentiation, she has thrived.<br><br>
How anything works depends on all the players and how well they match... the staff, the child and the parents.
 

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It depends on the pull-out program. When I was a kid he pull out program was simply a time when the gifted kids worked on fun projects such as computer work (70-80s I'm also old), research projects or getting their oddesy of the mind projects together. They were working on projects apart from the regular curriculum.<br><br>
Other gifted programs are pull-outs for advanced work at math or reading and are meant to supplement or replace the regular curriculum.<br><br>
The first may be fun and give the gifted child something to look forward to (it's also the time most likely to alienate teacher about the students leaving class to do fun stuff). The second is more likely to have an impact on the regular classroom.<br><br>
I personally find the second more useful. But it's also a lot harder to implement and there must be other advantages to it or the 1st kind wouldn't be so plentiful.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
What a wide variety of perspectives!<br>
It really does seem to vary. His school is a full Spanish Immersion program. Dh is Spanish and has spoken Spanish to them from day 1. The language is not a challenge for that reason but being required to speak it has boosted his confidence in using the language.<br>
It appears that his schools GT program is math focused.<br>
I'd love to hear more.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Phoebe</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15360448"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">His school is a full Spanish Immersion program. Dh is Spanish and has spoken Spanish to them from day 1.</div>
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Were his reading levels tested in English or Spanish? Was his math test in spanish?<br><br>
Even for a child who can easily do the math, doing word problems in a second language and writing the answers can pose a significant challange.
 

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Here's my personal experience with the gifted program. I'm only 20 now so it wasn't that awful long ago. I don't know what grade levels I was at or anything. Starting in Kindergarten I was moved up for reading classes (the school's program only allowed to be moved up one grade, so I was still ahead.) And then starting in 3rd grade there was a once weekly pullout program. We did occasional field trips and I remember studying Hamlet, Chinese numerals and inventions? we had to do a project for each unit like a diorama or creating a board game or an invention. I hated it. Even though I was gifted I wasn't created and I dropped the class. I was always ahead in every class all through elementary. I had the top grade and won every award. I was never challenged and the above was as much as the school could offer me. I spent a lot of time in the library (you could go anytime your work was done) reading books.<br>
The first year of middle school they had an end of the day gifted program every day. Unfortunately the only thing that the "gifted" teacher knew to teach us was German and Russian. Not saying it's not important to learn new languages, just that maybe there were other things we could have been taught.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Linda on the move</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15360628"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Were his reading levels tested in English or Spanish? Was his math test in spanish?<br><br>
Even for a child who can easily do the math, doing word problems in a second language and writing the answers can pose a significant challange.</div>
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No, the test was in English.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Phoebe</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15361483"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">No, the test was in English.</div>
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Is he learning at school? Is he happy? Is he having fun? Does he have friends?<br><br>
I guess I'm having trouble seeing why reading really well in English means that he won't be learning during a class on reading in spanish. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shrug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shrug"><br><br>
As far as reading in English, I don't see the point of continuing reading instruction for kids who can easily read all the books that are age appropriate. Both my kids read on the college level and I don't see what good that does them. One reads books that are age appropriate and therefore at least 7 levels below her reading level. One reads adult books and the content is highly questionable. Having kids that go both ways, age appropriate is my preference!
 

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Reading ability is a skill that builds on itself, like an athletic ability. I know people say that kids will eventually catch up to the gifted readers, but it's not necessarily so.<br><br>
I was a verbally gifted kid (SAT verbal = 800 on the old SAT) and a precocious, omnivorous reader. Even as an adult in a verbally oriented field (law), other bright/gifted adults don't read as fast or as well as I do. It's a huge professional advantage.<br><br>
I don't think I was hurt by reading "age inappropriate" stuff, even though it made my mother pretty uncomfortable a few times. (Example: "Mom, what's a menage a trois?"
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Linda on the move</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15361948"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Is he learning at school? Is he happy? Is he having fun? Does he have friends?<br><br>
I guess I'm having trouble seeing why reading really well in English means that he won't be learning during a class on reading in spanish. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shrug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shrug"></div>
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He does have fun. He has not been presented with any new material this year. But he likes the crafts and stuff. He has friends but no one he's bonded with really. While I think it's great that he gets to practice and learn to read A foriegn language, I'm not keen on the idea that Spanish is the ONLY thing he's being challenged by. Basically, I'll be sending him there all day to learn Spanish. This kid loves to learn all kinds of things.<br>
I get what your saying a out age appropriate material. But he will be spending the vast majority of next year on learn to read stuff. We never did any learn to read stuff here at home.<br>
Anyway, I'm jumping around here!<br>
I just don't care about sending him to school to learn Spanish (at the expense of most other subjects) and have a fun time. We can do both of those and much more here. He reads in Spanish as well, just doesn't like it as much. But I suppose I didn't intended this to be a post about homeschooling. I really just want to asses whether or not a pull out program is worth waiting around for.<br>
Hell, I don't even know if he'd get in! I just want him to keep moving forward at his own pace, enjoying the ride.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Phoebe</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15358676"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I am wondering, is being pulled out once per week enough stimulation for your gifted child?</div>
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Speaking as someone who did this as a kid -- NO. I don't know if it was really a G&T program or what (I think they called it "Enrichment" and it was only for the 'advanced' kids, so maybe it was).... We were pulled out of class once or twice a week, and while I vaguely remember enjoying it a bit (though I didn't find it overly stimulating), I mostly remember being bored to death the rest of the school week. Sitting through something you mastered years ago, doing that day after day, is so... disheartening. Mind-numbing. BORING. I can't even begin to truly describe it.<br><br>
It sounds like your child is very advanced (I was never tested as far as I know but he sounds more advanced than I was at that age)... If it were me, based on my own experience, I would lean toward homeschooling or some other more individualized schooling. My mom & I have long agreed with hindsight that homeschooling definitely would've been the better route for me.<br><br>
I imagine this is a tough decision for you to make!
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Phoebe</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15364186"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">He does have fun.</div>
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I think that if kids are happy where they are and there isn't a HUGE reason to move them, they should get to stay put.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"><br><br>
If school starts being a drag for him later, you can always pull him out later.<br><br>
I've met families that go back and forth between homeschooling and school several times because the grass is always greener. Either one can work, and they both have pros and cons.
 

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<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Phoebe</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15358676"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">My son is currently in a school that has a pull out program starting 2nd grade. Right now he is in Kinder. I have not seen the usefulness of IQ testing for him as of yet, but I did have the Peabody Individual Achievement Test administered to him so we could determine at what grade level he was performing. I thought that might help us figure out what to do with him. Turns out he's almost 4th grade for math and almost 6th grade fore reading. Basically nothing fell below grade3.9 except for 1 subject at grade 1.9.<br>
I am inclined to homeschool at this point but I'd like to hear about everything!<br><br>
I am wondering, is being pulled out once per week enough stimulation for your gifted child? I am assuming that the rest of the week's instruction is the at the usual grade level.<br>
Do these students then receive homework in both GT areas and the usual grade level stuff?<br><br>
Please share your experience!<br>
Amy</div>
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No, it's not enough for my kids. What has made a difference is a school and teachers that focus on individualized learning and differentiation. They love this school and their teachers. They're still in their grade and working on stuff that is approximately their level (I think DD could use more challenge, but she's fine). They also go to a weekly pull out and once a year do a week-long pull out. This is very nice, but would not meet their needs at all if their core work was unsuitable. DD actually moved schools this year because the "premiere" school she was attending lead to her totally checking out. It's all about the school culture - this is our 5th school and it's the best by far. DD did language immersion in kindie and it was definitely not enough to keep her engaged.
 
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