[starlein26]

my sister has a friend who just had a baby boy whom she had circumsized. so the other night i was on the phone with my sister and she had the gall to question why i thought this was cruel. she says 'it's not cruel, they don't need that flap of skin...i'm having my sons circumsized!'

i was so shocked and hurt by her ignorant and cruel attitude, since i had hoped she had sort of been inspired by our choices. so today i'm going to send her some links i just found here in hopes of educating her a little

 

[desertpenguin]

The ignorant usually make ignorant comments, but to think that it isn't somewhat cruel even while taking care of the completely ouchie penis? Hmph.

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[sahli29]

to show that quite a bit more is lost than just a little useless bit of skin...http://www.norm.org/lost.html

Would she consider anything of HER genitals to be useless? Ofcourse not. There are ofcourse some women who do choose to remove parts,but that is something they choose to do to themselves as an adult.

Why don't boys(and the men they become) deserve the same respect?????

 

[tinaruger]

I think as long as doctors promote circumcision, it will be thought of as normal and not cruel. Today, i was looking at some books that I got when i was pregnant. One was put out by wyeth Ayerst called your baby's first year. It was published in 1995 and there was a portion about circumcision. It said that the academy of pediatrics feel it is necessary for the "simple procedure" because of higher risks of UTI's and STD's and Cancer. Then I looked at another book called planning for pregnancy, birth, and beyond. It says that it is not recommended as routine anymore. The only time they can see it being done to a newborn is when the hole that urine comes out of is either too small or completely shut. It even said that most hospitals no longer perform RIC and it is done only by request. That book was published the exact same year. How can parents make an informed decision when books that were wrote by doctors have 2 different sides and make there arguments very convincing?

 

[AmandaBL]

I say bombard her with info. Sounds like she doesn't have boys yet. We as a socioty are taught that it IS a useless flap of skin. At some point all of us here learned otherwise. She can still learn - hopefully. Good luck!

 

[susienjay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinaruger I think as long as doctors promote circumcision, it will be thought of as normal and not cruel. Today, i was looking at some books that I got when i was pregnant. One was put out by wyeth Ayerst called your baby's first year. It was published in 1995 and there was a portion about circumcision. It said that the academy of pediatrics feel it is necessary for the "simple procedure" because of higher risks of UTI's and STD's and Cancer. Then I looked at another book called planning for pregnancy, birth, and beyond. It says that it is not recommended as routine anymore. The only time they can see it being done to a newborn is when the hole that urine comes out of is either too small or completely shut. It even said that most hospitals no longer perform RIC and it is done only by request. That book was published the exact same year. How can parents make an informed decision when books that were wrote by doctors have 2 different sides and make there arguments very convincing?

I totally agree with you. My mom had saved her baby book and I was reading it when I was visiting her last year (copyright 1975- I was born in 76). It had a short blurb about circ in it. It said circumcision was common and virtually eliminated the risk of penile cancer later in life (the only pro it listed). It did mention that it carried small risks but overall it was fairly neutral on the topic. It doesn't seem like the books have improved too much on the topic.

So many parents see it as a medical procedure. Why would the hospital offer it if it isn't beneficial? Plus so many doctors and nurses aren't educated about the topic. When my youngest 2 were in NICU I heard the nurses actually talk a mom into circing who wasn't totally decided. She did seem to be leaning towards doing it but the nurses really gave her a nudge by telling her it was no big deal, over quickly, and they numbed it up real good before they did the cutting.

 

[Evergreen]

The book my MIL has from when she was having babies (beginning in 1970) says something like, "If your doctor decides to circumcise your baby..."

Now I look at dh and his siblings and how they were raised and understand. You weren't supposed to question anything the doctor said back then, you just complied. It is sad, and unfortunately she still has the same attitude.

 

[AngelBee]

She needs to educate herself.

 

[Pam_and_Abigail]

aren't labia really just flaps of skin? maybe they should also be routinely removed. i mean really, they don't do much...

 

[Frankly Speaking]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evergreen The book my MIL has from when she was having babies (beginning in 1970) says something like, "If your doctor decides to circumcise your baby..." Now I look at dh and his siblings and how they were raised and understand. You weren't supposed to question anything the doctor said back then, you just complied. It is sad, and unfortunately she still has the same attitude.

In this case it might not have been about compliance, it might have been what just happened. You see, before a 1973 lawsuit by parents whose son was circumcised against their wishes, boys were commonly circumcised at the doctor's discretion. The parents had no say about it. The child was taken away and brought back circumcised. No one asked "Do you want your son circumcised." It was just done and sometimes even when the parents specifically said they did not want their son circumcised. This went back to the early part of the 20th century as hospital births became more common instead of home births as had been done for innumerable centuries before.

I often see on debate boards that "every man in the family is circumcised" as an excuse to circumcise when most likely, those circumcisions started with one foreskin stolen by a doctor and everyone just followed suit. It's like saying all of the members of my family have had their car stolen and it's become a tradition so I'm going to have my car stolen as well so that I will fit in with the family. Fortunately a stolen car can be replaced but a stolen sexual part can never be replaced. Once it is gone, it is gone forever.

Frank

 

[TiredX2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pam_and_Abigail aren't labia really just flaps of skin? maybe they should also be routinely removed. i mean really, they don't do much...

From what I have read that would also prevent a greater absolute # of cases of cancer as well.

 

[DreamsInDigital]

Quote:

"If your doctor decides to circumcise your baby..."

That freaking makes my head want to explode.

 

[Pam_and_Abigail]

"From what I have read that would also prevent a greater absolute # of cases of cancer as well."

removal of labia prevents cancer??

got a link?

 

[Frankly Speaking]

It's the same justification that removal of the foreskin will eliminate foreskin problems. "If there is no labia there, how can there possibly be a cancer on the labia?" It's a stupid argument for prophylactically removing the labia and it is just as stupid an argument for removing the foreskin.

Frank

 

[mamakay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankly Speaking It's the same justification that removal of the foreskin will eliminate foreskin problems. "If there is no labia there, how can there possibly be a cancer on the labia?" It's a stupid argument for prophylactically removing the labia and it is just as stupid an argument for removing the foreskin. Frank

Just to add to this thought...
In theory, you can get cancer anywhere. Routine infant pinkie toe removal would prevent pinkie toe cancer.
It would actually make some sense to remove all girl's mammary glands at birth to prevent breast cancer.
The scenarios are endless...

 

[Pam_and_Abigail]

Lemme guess... the doc (or whoever) came up with that one had similar surgery to prevent possible future brain tumours?

 

[allgirls]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pam_and_Abigail Lemme guess... the doc (or whoever) came up with that one had similar surgery to prevent possible future brain tumours?

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[paquerette]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pam_and_Abigail Lemme guess... the doc (or whoever) came up with that one had similar surgery to prevent possible future brain tumours?

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[starlein26]

so i emailed her some links and guess who i never heard back from. ignorance often leads to cruelty but education doesn't always lead to an apology! she can't be helped at this point i guess, she can only help herself (with some help from me :LOL)

 

[3girls1boy]

Sounds like she doesn't have any children yet. She may change her tune once she does.