Originally Posted by simonee
HEre in Holland about 4% of non-religious circing men is circed. I think it's less ~ I've never seen one, and I've seen my fair share
including on nude beaches and in saunas
Simonee, where did you get the figure from? I'm asking because I know it is difficult to obtain any realistic information about the rate in Germany and because certain groups out there like to exaggerate the number of circumcised men in a country. I once found a figure of 20% circumcised in Germany!
Now I've not been with many different men and I don't frequently visit nude beaches/saunas either, but I can't imagine that this number is true, not even if you count in Muslim (5+ % of the population) and Jewish (marginal due to our shameful history) religious circumcision. So I would be careful about such numbers floating around, unless they come directly from medical sources such as medical articles, doctor's associations and health insurance statistics.
Having said that, I actually think that 4% is quite reasonable, considering that alternative treatments haven't been around for that
long, that many people (and some doctors) still perceive circumcision as THE
cure for phimosis and that many parenting books, and probably also medical textbooks as well as some doctors still blabber about the "magical retraction age" at 3-4 years.
Oh, BTW, great match on Tuesday, wasn't it? http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung...ie_flagge8.gif http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung...ie_flagge6.gif
As far as the question of the OP is concerned, I once did some calculations based on two articles published in medical journals:
In this French study
Berdeu, D., Sauze, L., Ha-Vinh, P. & Blum-Boisgard, C. Cost-effectiveness analysis of treatments for phimosis: a comparison of surgical and medicinal approaches and their economic effect. BJU International 2001 87 (3), 239
the authors estimate that the number of medical circumcisions performed in France in 1998 was 51 080. That sounds like a huge number, but let's look at it as a percentage of the French population of 59 million people. Assuming that half of them (29.5 million) are male, the percentage of French boys and men undergoing circumcision for a medical reason (phimosis etc.) in 1998 was 0,2 %.
But that's not the end of it: Berdeu et al. found out that in 85 % of cases of phimosis, the problem could be successfully remedied with 4 or 8 weeks of (painless) steroid creme application and stretching. That means that 43 418 of those 51 080 circumcisions might have been unnecessary. Which leaves only 7662 French boys and men which would have had
to be circumcised in that particular year - or 0,03 % of the total male population.
Circumcision risk: 0,03 % per year or a theoretical "life risk" of 2 % for a 70 year old man
And they didn't even discuss the possibility of preputioplasty, an operation which preserves all of the foreskin, is much less traumatic and can replace circumcision in many cases. It is described in this study from Germany:
Saxena AK, Schaarschmidt K, Reich A, Willital GH. Non-retractile foreskin: a single center 13-year experience. Int Surg 2000;85(2):180-3.
In a German hospital, 2554 boys have been treated for non-retractile foreskin between 1984 and 1997. Stretching / steroid therapy was either not possible or had been tried unsuccessfully in these cases.
2177 (85 %) of them have been successfully treated with preputioplasty. The patients tolerated the treatment well and were satisfied with the (cosmetic) result.
284 (11 %) of them had adhesions, the separation of which solved the problem.
73 (3 %) of them have been circumcised. But of these circumcisions, only 2 (0,08 %) were unavoidable. The remaining 71 circumcisions were performed because the parents explicitly wished so (mainly for religious reasons).
2 medically necessary circumcisions in 13 years! If it wasn't for those "parental wish" circumcisions, the doctors might have forgotten how to do
them altogether! (Every intactivist's dream, I know.
Circumcision risk: 0,08 %
Unfortunately, with the information I have, it's impossible to convert this figure into a percentage of a total population of boys, but if we assume that one of ten boys ended up in that hospital, it would be 0,008 % of all boys, if it was only one in a hundred, it drops to 0,0008 % and so on. Suddenly, the "Finnish figure" of 0,006 % or 1 of 16 667 men doesn't sound as insanely low as it did before...