Mothering Forum banner
1 - 20 of 81 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,229 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know there are some people on here who have done tons of research on nutrition, so I thought I would take advantage of your knowledge<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> So...are there parts of NT you don't agree with based on research you have done? I'm trying to make my diet as healthy as it can possibly be, and before I make all the changes I feel I need to after reading NT, I would like to make sure they are all necessary--so I don't have to go through the whole process of making more changes again later!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
871 Posts
One question I have about NT is whether we should be basing our diets on the hunter/gathering primitive lifestyle or an agricultural one. Certainly obtaining milk and grains requires a certain level of social evolution. I'm not exactly sure how they differentiate between these two.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,187 Posts
I like NT a lot. I really appreciate some of the information on fermenting, sprouting and animal fats. But, I think she puts too much emphasis on grains and dairy.<br><br>
Not that I think every person needs to or should exclude both! But many people do need to exclude one or both, and yet live extremely healthful lives. Grains and dairy are recent additions to our diets, evolutionarily (is that a word, or did I make it up? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"> ) speaking. I don't think that either are neccisary at all. But, they are easy sources of nutrition that, if they are tolerated well by your body, can enrich your life. (Remember that food is about far more than providing nutritional input. It has deeply rooted social and emotional aspects, too.)<br><br>
My feeling is that we need to start with a basis of a primitive, caveman type diet, then add on to that as best fits our physical and emotional needs. Studying what traditional cultures do to determine the best ways to supplement that caveman type diet is a good approach, which is where I find much of WAP's research to be great.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,992 Posts
Yeah, I have more specific points, but I'll have to get out the book to be accurate. But I'm also feeling that it's heavy on dairy and grains. I don't know that we were really meant to eat grains...dairy I can buy in small amounts and properly perpared, the key is both. Small amounts (like MAYBE a serving a day) I'm still reforming my ideas on dairy, so I'll leave that to the more experienced ladies. Grains are a relatively new addition to our diets. If you're going to eat them they need to be soaked-I agree. But even then I don't do well on them. Alot of people don't. That said, there's alot of great info in that book. Absolutely worth the read.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
368 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">But even then I don't do well on them.</td>
</tr></table></div>
How exactly don't you do well? I wonder if somehow I'm not doing well--but I want to be sure before I try to figure out how to lose sourdough, kwim?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,872 Posts
Honestly, there's not too much in the book that I disagree with. I have found that I do okay with limited grains and legumes, but my huz on the other hand can eat them 'til the cows come home with no ill effects. I am dairy lover but have allergies so I gave dairy up until I found that raw dairy does not affect my allergies at all. The huz still can't do dairy aside from yogurt so he doesn't. I can't fault NT, really, we just do what works best for us.<br><br>
I though that I would really like GoE better because it is so fruit and veggie focused but the recipes and meal plans don't really appeal and I think some of the science is not as well written or cited as the stuff from NT and WAPF.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,053 Posts
Not much but I can't do grains or any sugars other than honey.<br><br>
And I still have BIG issues with organ meats but that's just the former vegetarian me talking...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,992 Posts
If I do grains I get all sluggish and bloaty. My natural rhythms (trying to be delicate here) get off and I get gassy. There's also some fatigue and mental ick that happens too. The more grains, the more depression. Someday...after lots of healing I may be able to do them, but I sure can't now. It's also not a priority for me because as of now I really don't think we were meant to eat them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,269 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>JaneS</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">And I still have BIG issues with organ meats but that's just the former vegetarian me talking...</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
I also have reservations about organ meats. It's my understanding that they filter out the toxins in our bodies. I don't know that we should eat the filters of other animals bodies. Sounds really icky put that way, doesn't it? I'm sure that cavemen ate the whole animal, just like in the Far Side cartoon, but there weren't as many toxic substances being filtered by the organs back then.<br>
I'm also not convinced about all the fermenting since fermented things things give me migraines. Maybe I wouldn't get these headaches if everything was right in my body but... It's hard to know which came first. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br>
I do think the stock thing is right on. Nothing cures you like real chicken soup! Much of the book is awesome but a few things leave me with questions. Like so many things, take what you like and leave the rest!<br>
Suzy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,747 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Pinky Tuscadero</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I also have reservations about organ meats. It's my understanding that they filter out the toxins in our bodies. I don't know that we should eat the filters of other animals bodies. Sounds really icky put that way, doesn't it? I'm sure that cavemen ate the whole animal, just like in the Far Side cartoon, but there weren't as many toxic substances being filtered by the organs back then.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">:<br>
Times have changed since then. I have similar issues with GoE not necessarily being current. Disclaimer: I am a vegetarian.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
473 Posts
I try to adapt as much of NT to my life as I can. I don't do organ meats and don't ferment much. I do the yogurt, raw milk, organic, and I try to soak my grains, but I don't do many grains.<br><br>
The ONE problem I have with the NT BOOK is the section on breastfeeding and formula. I think Sally puts very little emphasis on breastfeeding, kinda like, 'well, if you can, do it'. I think it contradicts the whole point of the book! IMHO
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,992 Posts
ITA about the breastfeeding thing. It's one of the reasons I don't love Sally Fallon. I'm reserving my judgements on the research until I read WAP's stuff.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
368 Posts
ita about the breastfeeding thing too--really disappoints me. thanks for explaining about the grains, firefaery. i'm just starting to see how sugar contributed to my depression/anxiety. i'm hoping grains aren't the next step--i'm just not ready. but depression lingers, very lightly tho. i'm hoping it's just being worn out and stuck inside (somewhat) with crazy toddler twins!<br><br>
i can't begin to approach organ meats--i feel the same way--if the liver is supposed to filter bad things, doesn't it seem like bad things would be left in there? but i made beef stock with gross bones and have survived so far (my dogs are going to be so happy). but the frozen whole chicken might make a nightmare appearance before i deal with it. former vegetarian here too.<br><br>
former anorexic, i might add. long ago, not too severe, but the thing about NT that is the hardest for me is believing butter is good for you. i don't disagree, but it's difficult for me. and whole fat milk (not to mention raw--which i haven't gotten yet, but hope to soon). i have to say that now that i understand homogenization, i'm looking forward to leaving it behind, but it grossed me out when my breast milk would separate in the fridge. hopefully i won't pass these issues onto my girls. but believing fat is good? that's hard. meanwhile, i'm eating yogurt with honey as dessert and using butter liberally--making up for lost time i guess. and no longer looking for the leanest beef. it all makes sense that we need fat, but low-fat is so ingrained in me. damn the diet dictocrats<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1">!<br><br>
(where can i find more on WAP and breastfeeding? in N&PD, it seems like all moms magically weaned at a year........)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,069 Posts
I agree with her soaking and sprouting suggestions, however I have problems with her recommendations about eating a lot of fats, dairy, and meat. The main thing that has turned me off of Fallon's book is her research. I recommend that you take a look at her footnotes and decide whether you feel *she* has done enough research. For example, in some of her claims about the right fats to eat (coconut good, canola bad), she cites studies from 1979, 1981, and 1982, and a conversation with Mary Enig (who may be knowledgeable, but that doesn't give me much comfort--where did Enig get her information?). Is that the most current research done on this topic? I think not. I'm not saying Fallon is wrong; I'm just not willing to trust what she says when IMHO much of her research and evidence seems lacking. Especially when what she says contradicts the majority of the current research (such as her emphasis on saturated fats). I've recently gotten Weston Price's book, which I hope will shed more light on these issues for me.<br><br>
I should add that this is all my opinion based on the reading I've done and what I feel it right for my family; I'm in no way making judgements about anyone who follows and likes NT.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,179 Posts
Re: WAPF and breastfeeding<br>
As far as I understand it, WAPF is very pro-breastfeeding. It is natural and traditional. However, there is a very big caveat. The mother needs to be properly nourished in order to feed her baby optimally.<br><br>
Articles:<br>
Many on this page, esp. check out the "Breastfeeding Discussion" for a great letter from an ex-LLL leader: <a href="http://www.westonaprice.org/children/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.westonaprice.org/children/index.html</a><br>
and this one:<a href="http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/nourish-baby.html" target="_blank">http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeat...rish-baby.html</a><br><br>
Sally Fallon had difficulty breastfeeding, even despite eating a healthy diet. I don't know why, though some have theorized that it was because support was not all that great back in the 70's when she was breastfeeding (10 minutes a side, remember that? No wonder women didn't make "enough" milk!). She talks about her experience in the "Breastfeeding Saga" article.<br><br>
And you know, seeing how wiped out I got during breastfeeding and not eating the best diet, I do agree that it is of extreme importance that a nursing mama's nutrition be top notch. Don't get me wrong, I Love Love Love La Leche League and what they do. I just think that in pursuit of trying to make breastfeeding accessible and easy for everyone to do, then some problems get overlooked. I would have appreciated a bit of nutritional support back when I was suffering so badly.<br><br>
ETA: do a search in this forum (if the seach function has been fixed) for breastfeeding and nutrition. There was some discussion here as well as in the breastfeeding forum all about the subject of nutrition being very important for nursing mamas.<br><br>
Found the link to nutrition/bf in the bf forum:<br><a href="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=343188" target="_blank">http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=343188</a>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,179 Posts
Oh, and my personal complaints with NT are that she spends so much time emphasizing meat and fat that the poor vegetables get a much slighter mention. I personally think that it should be flipped around more like the Garden of Eating diet.<br><br>
I do think organ meats are important, not only from a nutritional perspective but also from an environmental perspective. I think it is wasteful not to eat the whole beast.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,187 Posts
toraji, while I agree that the best option for feeding a baby is breastfed from a well-fed mother, I still believe that breastfed from a poorly fed mother is still superior to formula feeding. I don't like that Fallon disparages the milk of "poorly" fed mothers and emphasises artificial feeding in a way that seems to imply that formula could be an ideal choice even when the mother is able to breastfeed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
336 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I have problems with her recommendations about eating a lot of fats, dairy, and meat. The main thing that has turned me off of Fallon's book is her research. I recommend that you take a look at her footnotes and decide whether you feel *she* has done enough research. For example, in some of her claims about the right fats to eat (coconut good, canola bad), she cites studies from 1979, 1981, and 1982, and a conversation with Mary Enig (who may be knowledgeable, but that doesn't give me much comfort--where did Enig get her information?). Is that the most current research done on this topic? I think not. I'm not saying Fallon is wrong; I'm just not willing to trust what she says when IMHO much of her research and evidence seems lacking. Especially when what she says contradicts the majority of the current research (such as her emphasis on saturated fats).</td>
</tr></table></div>
There is plenty of research to back up her statements about fats. A few who have written books on the subject are Dr. Schwarzbein, Dr. Enig, Dr. Atkins. Or a very good book is The Modern Nutritional Diseases by Dr. Alice Ottoboni and Dr. Frank Ottoboni.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
504 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Bia</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">There is plenty of research to back up her statements about fats. A few who have written books on the subject are Dr. Schwarzbein, Dr. Enig, Dr. Atkins. Or a very good book is The Modern Nutritional Diseases by Dr. Alice Ottoboni and Dr. Frank Ottoboni.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Didn't Dr. Atkins have a heart attack? I haven't read NT, is it at all like Atkins? I've been considering reading it, even though I disagree with much of what I hear about it. Information is never a bad thing IMO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,493 Posts
I have no problem believing her about fat. She explains how many fat soluble vitamins are in things like butter and whole milk products. I feel like butter is one of the most healthy things I eat. Butter and kale<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br>
Like many here, the breastfeeding thing is my biggest issue (I think). She totally projects her own breastfeeding issues on the rest of the population. And some of her homemade formulas seem kind of gross.<br>
I just can't do the soaking thing either....except for the oatmeal and that is what sold me in the first place. I used to feel like I had a brick in my stomach after eating oatmeal- but soaked oatmeal is sooo good and digestable.<br>
I guess the other thing I DON'T like is the heavy emphasis on meat. We eat so much meat and I don't feel like it's that great for us. I think it would be better for us to eat small portions of meat almost every day- like 4-5 oz. but not every single day.
 
1 - 20 of 81 Posts
Top