[LuxPerpetua]

I'm sure this situation will get less and less as dd gets older and naturally has a greater variety of things in common with her age-mates, but she's only 3.5 (or nearly so) at the moment. I've been having trouble finding good playmates for her. She's very advanced and whenever she's with kids her own age there is such disparity that they have trouble playing together. Sometimes it's a difference in verbal abilities, sometimes in skills, sometimes in interests, and sometimes all three. Last week we had a playdate with a little girl who is about 10 months younger than dd, which I know is significant, but it felt even more so by the huge difference in their development (at 2.5, she was verbally where dd was at 19 or 20 months old). She's played with children who are much older (like 7-9 year olds) who are old enough to understand that she's still really little and needs help with some things but but that has it's own challenges because dd is just not socially mature enough to interact in the ways that older kids enjoy playing. I'm just not sure what to do. Things work best when we're able to go outside and play with kids there but where we live the weather does not always permit that. What have you ladies done at this age for friends? Have any of you experienced what I'm talking about? DD doesn't have any siblings and she's stays at home full-time. My parents come over every day so she gets a lot of great interaction from them and from my dh and myself, but I feel that she's getting old enough now to appreciate having a friend her age . . . but I just can't seem to find one that's a good match for us. It wouldn't be a big deal to me if it didn't seem to bother dd but she has difficulty understanding why other kids her age are so different from her. I've talked to her about how all kids learn things differently, etc., but "knowing" that type of thing hasn't seem to lessen her desire to have a friend similar to herself. I'm just at a loss as to what to do.

 

[earthmama369]

DD's 4 and I've found that for the last year (once she got physically big and coordinated enough that I felt she could comfortably hold her own), larger groups have been good for her rather than a lot of one-on-one playdates. A group has a different energy and the play tends to more naturally encompass different abilities and interests. It's still required a fair amount of parental guidance at times to keep the play inclusive, but it's been easier for her to find some way to play that suits her *and* the kids she's playing with when there's so much variety. It also puts her in the middle of a range of abilities, so there are kids who know different facts than her, kids who are more physically adept, kids who have new games she hasn't played before, etc., and I think that's really good for her to see that there's a such a range of talents and interests in everyone.

 

[Rivka5]

It doesn't surprise me that getting together with a 2.5-year-old didn't work out well - that's more of a parallel-play age for most kids anyway, and the age difference is pretty huge. I would look for kids in the 3.5-4.5 age range. Kids that age aren't experts at playing-with-friends yet either, but they're better at it.

What kind of problems manifest when your daughter plays with age peers? You've jumped right to the diagnosis (she's so advanced that they can't play together) without describing the symptoms, so it's hard to know what advice to give you. I can only talk a little about what's gone on with us.

My bright, incredibly verbal kid just turned four. She's had a lot of problematic playdates with kids her own age. The problems basically boil down to two areas: she gets very bossy and wants them to play in a particular way and follow rules she's made up, and she also gets freaked out and cries/complains/tattles because they're too exuberant or physical for her. I think those problems are related to her giftedness, but rather than framing it as "she's too advanced for them" and needs older playmates, I see it more as a sign of her emotional sensitivities and social immaturity, and her need for gentle help learning and practicing skills for being a good friend.

A few things that have helped:

- I eventually realized that a big part of the problem is that my two closest mom friends have kids who are much more physical, exuberant, and fearless than my daughter is. It's a bad temperamental match. She does much better with children who are calmer in temperament. We were always getting together with those kids because I like their moms so much, but it actually put my daughter at a social disadvantage. She appears to have better social skills with different friends.

- It helps a LOT to move off our turf. Not just playing outside, but going to the children's museum or the library or some other place where my kid is less apt to think she has a right to make the rules.

- It helps to provide an activity rather than to expect the kids to mutually agree on something to play. Art activities, play-doh, etc. are great for kids who are at different developmental levels to do side-by-side. Cooking or exploring some outside area like a nature preserve have also been great for this.

I think it's very, very important for gifted kids to learn how to interact with people who aren't as smart as they are. And I say that as a former gifted kid who didn't figure out until college that a huge part of the reason why I had trouble making friends was because I had poor social skills, not because I was too smart for other people to like me.

 

[no5no5]

You know, there was a time when I might have written a post pretty similar to yours, but I've recently gotten a new perspective on it. My DD is 3, and until recently we had a very hard time finding friends her age she could play with regularly. It was made that much worse by her continual insistence that she wanted friends and wanted to play with other kids--but whenever we went to the playground the kids her age seemed like babies and the older kids thought she was a baby.

But since we've begun having regular playdates with a group of kids her age (all or some of whom may or may not be gifted), I have realized that she plays with them (and they with her) at least as well as they do with each other. Though they are so close in age, size, and temperament, they are all wildly different. And those differences do manifest in the way they play with each other. So seeing DD with a group of kids her age and seeing that she is not the least social of the group, and does not stand out as the weird one, was really helpful. (There isn't really one who stands out as weird, because as I said, all the kids have their own idiosyncrasies.) And I have noticed that all of the kids are able (at times) to find common ground and have fun together despite their differences.

I will also note that one of the kids DD has the most fun playing with is fully a year younger, and seems much younger than that (since she is developmentally normal and DD is likely HG+). But they get along great. It doesn't take much by way of vocabulary or reasoning ability to run around and trade flowers and get muddy.

 

[joensally]

I'd kind of equate it to going on blind dates - not every one's going to be a match.

Can you find a group setting where you might meet a wider variety of kids? Library story time? Community centre open gym time?

 

[greenmamapagan]

There have been quite a few threads like this in the year or so I've been lurking here & we've had some similar problems. I like no5's perspective on it though. One child DD loves to play with is exactly a year older but developmentally delayed in speech at least. I have great trouble understanding her and DD is constantly asking either me or the other girl's mother "What did she say?" But they have the best fun together

Don't underestimate that thing about getting what you wish for as well. We now live a lot closer to a little girl we've known for a while who is only 9ish months older than DD and a match for her in every way. Sounds great? Within seconds of being together they turn into this crazy joint whirlwind thing. They're having fun but everyone else around them, adults and other children alike are sort of flattened in their path. The fact that they are so similarly matched means they can unleash their primal childishness to it's full potential

 

[loraxc]

Great post, Rivka5.

I echo others in saying: keep looking. I might also suggest trying preschool out. A mixed-age class, like Montessori, could be especially good. With a larger group to select from, she may have more luck.

Also, give it time. DD was sort of a social disaster in the 3s and early 4s. I blamed it on all kinds of things, giftedness among them. At 5, she now has many friends and plays well with all kinds of kids. And I wouldn't say she is drawn to other bright kids especially--actually, I couldn't quite say why her best friends are who they are.

 

[EVC]

You know, this is an interesting question.

With my dd (three and a half, fairly on the advanced end of things) it is just the opposite. She has a friend a month older than she is and at about the same place intellectually/developmentally. Deep down they ADORE each other, they really do, but.....When they play together it can be HORRIBLE. They are BOTH so bossy, they BOTH want to be in control, make the decisions, and have the other accomodate their decisions about what to play, how to play it, and who will do what. It can get ugly as all get out sometimes. They are both just SO strong willed and neither will yield to the other.

And they both constantly BEG for playdates

On the other hand, dd has a friend exactly (almost to the day) a year younger than she is. They are AMAZING together. Dd makes all the decisions for play, and her friend seems to almost idolize her (which dd loves). She has another friend who is almost exactly a year old, but very verbally delayed. They also do quite well together, because dd gets to do all the talking, be center stage, and her friend seems happy enough with that and really not in a position to pose much of a challenge to her.

All of this is to say, who knew that pre-school social dynamics could be so complex? I for one didn't expect this

And the other thing, of course, is that I do NOT want to encourage dd to only be able to play with those whom she can dominate. This is clearly the dynamic that she enjoys and that kind of worries me. I don't think that is healthy at all and could be setting her up for some MAJOR social issues down the road.

Quote:

I think it's very, very important for gifted kids to learn how to interact with people who aren't as smart as they are. And I say that as a former gifted kid who didn't figure out until college that a huge part of the reason why I had trouble making friends was because I had poor social skills, not because I was too smart for other people to like me.

This is just brilliant. Really.

I do wish I knew how to do that for dd. I wish I knew better how to guide her through this. I don't like the way things are going....

 

[lanamommyphd07]

I've noticed when watching my quite-bright 2 y.o. play with a range of kids that she's developing this ability to play for the sake of playing versus shining the cognitive light, ya know? She might be into finishing all the puzzles with one buddy and then with a much younger one will play babies. There are all sorts of play activities that hit many different levels at once--like dd might be talking about the contents of her baby's diaper and what kind of dog her baby has, planning what she'll cook her for lunch, while her pal is dragging his by the hair, not talking about it at all, but they're still enjoying playing babies together. IME it's pretty normal for even the most gifted kid to do a lot of the parallel play--sometimes they need a little assistance with patience, however.

 

[LuxPerpetua]

Thanks so much for the replies! They've given me lots to think on. One of the issues I've been thinking about is that with dd there is no parallel play going on--it's more like the other kid is playing and dd is just watching them play. Perhaps she just isn't ready to engage in actual play at this point. She seems to enjoy having the other children around but she just shows no desire to actually interact with them. She's more likely to want to talk to the mom, but I think that's just her experience from hanging out with 4 really fun adults her whole life

. Her best playmates really are my parents, who are amazing with her. I like the poster who said her child was a "social disaster" at this age because that really rings true for us, I think, and it totally made me smile. I'm glad I'm not the only one who has engaged that thought! When dd has actually played with other children they've been older, but older kids don't often want to play with little ones. I'd like to do an AP playgroup but transportation is often an issue (we share a car, and there is no public transit) but I'm still keeping up hope that one will fall into place that will be a good fit. I'd love to find a wider variety of children her age that have at least a similar development, but that may be asking too much. With our one experience with a little boy dd's age (from our old home) I've seen that development is really more critical than age. This little boy was a great kid but developmentally nearly 18 months behind dd, which meant they really could not play together at all really. That, and their personalities just clashed. The 2.5 year old is the only child I've found so far close to dd's age near where we live. Hopefully, things will improve at the next playdate. Thanks again!

 

[eepster]

So last night, DS said "Mr Rabbit is my best friend." I asked DS (3y 2m) who his other friends were.

DS "Daddy and grandpa."
Me "Who are your other friends."
DS "Aunt D___, Uncle P_____ and cousin K____"
Me "what about at school, who are you friends at school?"
DS "Mrs M____ and Mrs S______."
Me "Who o you play with at school."
DS "NO, I work at school."

All that said, I do think DS has friends at school, or at least there are a bunch of kids who think they are his friends, b/c they are constantly pointing him out, to their parents who all seem to have heard great deal more about DS than I have about their child.

 

[HeatherB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eepster All that said, I do think DS has friends at school, or at least there are a bunch of kids who think they are his friends, b/c they are constantly pointing him out, to their parents who all seem to have heard great deal more about DS than I have about their child.

Yes, that's my DS, too! I have parents coming up to me, saying their DS just hasn't stopped talking about my DS. "It's Iain this, and Iain that, all day!" they say. My DS, on the other hand, is not nearly as expressive. He clearly thinks and stews over things a ton, but we don't hear about it as much, so it kind of weirds me out that these other kids are talking about him so much! Still, his teacher's remarks are that he plays with one child at a time, and rarely in groups.

I think the consensus on group play is a good one, if you can find it. It really does give you, as the parent, a better perspective on how your own child is developing (and for me, it's usually a lessening of anxiety about it!). Kids are amazing, and resilient, and I'm sure that as you continue to look for opportunities for play with kids near her age, that she'll make adapt to playing with them and really enjoy herself.

 

[Delicateflower]

OP, how do you feel about preschool or a class like gym or dance? Then you can scope out children of a similar age and interests.

Quote:

One of the issues I've been thinking about is that with dd there is no parallel play going on--it's more like the other kid is playing and dd is just watching them play. Perhaps she just isn't ready to engage in actual play at this point. She seems to enjoy having the other children around but she just shows no desire to actually interact with them.

Give it time. They all develop at different rates and not all 3.5 year olds are confident enough to jump right in. It's harder to interact with peers than with adults who engage you and gloss over social difficulties. From my observations at our preschool your son sounds spot on in his development for his age.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivka5 It doesn't surprise me that getting together with a 2.5-year-old didn't work out well - that's more of a parallel-play age for most kids anyway, and the age difference is pretty huge. I would look for kids in the 3.5-4.5 age range. Kids that age aren't experts at playing-with-friends yet either, but they're better at it.

ITA. Even at just 3 or 3.5 they're a bit hit or miss.

Quote:

All that said, I do think DS has friends at school, or at least there are a bunch of kids who think they are his friends, b/c they are constantly pointing him out, to their parents who all seem to have heard great deal more about DS than I have about their child.

At our preschool most of the kids do this. Half the time they have no idea which child they're talking about. Mine can't point out the child she talks about all the time and yesterday another mother told me her daughter talks about mine all the time. And yet they never play together and mine is fixated on talking about two other children. It seems to be a 2-3-4 year old thing. Maybe part of moving from parallel play? They want to play with other children and talk as though they do, but the reality is not quite there yet.

 

[hottmama]

My son is exactly the same age and didn't really play with other kids until a couple months ago, and now is mr. social at preschool and at playdates/the park/etc. I think he just had some shyness to overcome, and had to figure out how to play with other kids. At his parent-teacher conference in January, we were trying to figure out how to get him "out of his shell" and it's totally happened, now. Just keep offering opportunities-- she's bright enough to figure it out!