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What to do when one child is making your child miserable?

734 Views 15 Replies 12 Participants Last post by  hsmamato2
We have been in our homeschooling support group for 7 years, since my oldest was 5 and my middle daughter a toddler. This year my daughter, K, has started coming home frequently in tears and not wanting to go because of another child her age, an only child who just began homeschooling and who joined our group this year. We have never had this problem before. While I'm finally making a move to speak with the mother, who seems very nice (but whom I don't know well), I am always petrified of this kind of confrontation. What do other people do to help a situation like this?

At first, the two girls seemed to enjoy each other a lot. Then we had the other girl, T, overnight after a party (another friend of K's stayed), and things started to go sour. T is very assertive and made demands on me (which I did not always agree to, and she did not like it) and began asking K if she could have some of her things. For example, she told K to give her her sunglasses because she didn't have any herself and needed them to correct her vision (we did try to tell her they are non-corrective). Then she told K that K looked "dorky" in the glasses and should give them to her. A lot of other unpleasant comments were made throughout the morning. I didn't say much about these comments but tried to encourage them to get along until T's mother came for her. I have never had such a difficult or demanding child in my home before. (The other girl who stayed overnight told her mother that T was "not very nice.")

After this, T began frequently acting unpleasant to K at our homeschool group and other gatherings, especially if other girls their age are present. She tries to leave K out of games or refuse to play what K wants to play but shows favor to any other girl present. T seems very competitive and becomes unsettled or jealous if K appears to be good at something or have some perceived advantage over her, and she frequently tells fibs. Unfortunately, K cannot seem to ignore the fibs, despite my advice, and tries to challenge T whenever she perceives she is lying. K also gets quite caught up in the drama of the situation and, even when other friends are present and she does not have to interact directly with T, she is still unhappy and angry afterwards because of some comment or look from her.

We have continued to make attempts to be hospitable (had T over for a playdate one day when it they had been the only two girls their age at group, and they had been getting along), but T seems bent on singling out E and being unkind to her. Yesterday, there were only 3 girls around their age at our gathering, and T attempted again to leave K out of the interaction. She reported to her mother that K was being mean to her, then she reported back to K that her mom had said, "K seems to have trouble getting along with more than one girl at a time." I sometimes tell my kids that 3 together can be difficult, but I don't think it was fair for T's mom to blame K (if she actually did say it) for having a particular problem. In other groups over the years, I have never perceived K to have any special trouble being with more than one child. So now I am also angry that this comment was made; it seems to provide T with what she wants--justification for being angry with or disliking K. If you have made it through my long ramblings, how would you talk with the mother or handle this situation?
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I wish I had some advice, but I don't really know what I would say to the mom if I were in your situation. (I hate confrontation, too.)

I might approach it like, "My daughter has been feeling xyz about her and your daughter's relationship. Has your daughter mentioned anything similar?" That way the other mom has a chance to voice her opinion on the situation without feeling like her daughter is being blamed, and then you can get a two-way dialogue going.

I wonder whether this situation will improve the longer the other girl is out of school? I'm not saying you shouldn't do anything about it now, because I think you should, but I wonder whether the new norms of a homeschooling group will eventually start to counterbalance the norms this girl learned in school?

dm
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How old are K and T? My advice is going to be different if they're 5 or if they're 10- the younger they are, the more parental involvement is appropriate. Has this new girl just joined because she's finally school aged, because they just moved in, or because she was just pulled out of public school?
The girls are 8-9 yrs. old. I really don't know the child's situation, but I do know that some adult intervention is needed (and my daughter has asked me to talk to the other mother, which is unusual for her!). I just want to be careful, as the pp said, not to make the mother feel blamed--especially now that it seems she's given her child a reason to blame mine, and it doesn't feel good at all on this end! Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruthla View Post
How old are K and T? My advice is going to be different if they're 5 or if they're 10- the younger they are, the more parental involvement is appropriate. Has this new girl just joined because she's finally school aged, because they just moved in, or because she was just pulled out of public school?
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Does your daughter want to continue a relationship with this other girl? Is she asking you to talk to her mother because she wants to stop the interaction?

Maybe you can comment to the other mother that your daughter has never had these issues with her friends before and ask if the other girl has had issues with getting along with her friends. You can say that you noticed her daughter is trying to play the "excluding"game and that you have forbidden your daughter to play that game and ask that she do the same for group harmony.

I pay close attention when I hear my children start to run away from or avoid another kid. I will usually go tell the kids that no "exclusive" play is allowed because it's rude and hurtful. It's the thing that would bother me the worst.

I think it's good that your daughter is standing up for herself and challenging the lies. I've noticed that homeschooling kids seem pretty good at being assertive. A definite bonus!

I hope you get it worked out.
Lisa
I am wondering if you could have a conversation with the mom, something along the lines of "I am wondering if you would be interested in talking about our daughters relationship, my daughter has been feeling very hurt". You could certainly talk about that you value them and are looking for harmony. You could even mention what her daughter said (re:your daughter not playing well in groups), and say that you have never seen this issue with your daughter. You could say what you have observed (excluding behavior, lying, etc...). At that point, I would let the other mom respond. Has she noticed this? What could you both do to create harmony for the girls? Could you invite them all over to tea and help facilitate a conversation between the girls? Those are some of my thoughts.

At one point we experienced a situation in our group where it was unclear what happened in a relationship between my dd and another girl. The mom share with me what she thought had happened. The mom invited us both out for coffee so that the girls could re-connect. The mom really was appreciative that I brought up my concern and I was appreciative of her suggestion to meet and her willingness to try to smooth things over. It was really a good experience for us both.
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I was thinking about this more this morning and I came back and saw that someone had already posted my thoughts. If your daughter is interested in continuing the relationship with this girl, perhaps some closely supervised playdates, where a discreet activity is planned so that there is no unstructured time, could take place. You and the other mom might use this time to talk with the girls about certain behaviors in a specific way, or even in a more general way you could discuss relationships and the social expectations of groups.

It's possible that your daughter and this girl will always have personality conflicts, but one possible good outcome could be that the girls learn to coexist peacefully at group functions without deliberate antagonizing, even if they choose not to pursue the friendship. I think it's important that both girls know that it's possible for them to choose not to be friends and that this is not viewed as a failure, as long as they are able to be polite to one another.

I know that with my own daughter, who is somewhat older than yours, I often struggle with how upfront to be with her about things I have observed in her behavior. I have found, at least with my daughter, that the best course of action is to simply state what I have observed in a way that is non-blaming but also not open to dispute. When I state the issue matter-of-factly, as though we all know exactly what's going on and the focus is not on the fact that it happened but on finding a solution, she tends to respond fairly well (or, if she is not very happy about, she at least accepts what I have to say at face value and doesn't waste a lot of energy arguing with me about the facts of the matter). I would imagine that, at these girls' ages, they could handle a fairly frank discussion of what has happened and be participants in choosing what to do about it. The solution does not necessarily have to be that they become best buddies.

I really hope that this girl's presence doesn't completely discourage your daughter from continuing to attend and enjoy the group she has been part of for so long.

dm

Ps. Sorry this got so long.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by dharmamama View Post
I have found, at least with my daughter, that the best course of action is to simply state what I have observed in a way that is non-blaming but also not open to dispute. When I state the issue matter-of-factly, as though we all know exactly what's going on and the focus is not on the fact that it happened but on finding a solution, she tends to respond fairly well (or, if she is not very happy about, she at least accepts what I have to say at face value and doesn't waste a lot of energy arguing with me about the facts of the matter)..
dm, this sounds helpful, but I'm having trouble picturing exactly how it's occurring, if that makes sense.

So with the example of the girls above, what sort of statement would you choose? And directed to the daughter or the other child?
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it seriously sounds like what a child would go through while in a school outside the home. There are always going to be atleast one child with this type of personality in all school situations.
I'd say just leave her be. If your child were in school outside your home she would need to deal with her herself or you would need to approach the teacher perhaps if it got to the point of her bullying her physically. But kids will be kids and some are just meaner than others. As long as she isn't hurting her then I would just talk to your DD about how some kids can be this way.

This other little girl sounds like she wants to be best friends with your DD and doesn't want her to be friends with anyone else so that's probalby why she is talking to her like that in front of the other kids. I may be wrong, but I don't know.

I would try hard to avoid this little girl if at all possible. If it doesn't stop and it really is bothering your DD then I would most definitely have a talk with the other mother but in a nice way. Maybe you could get her e-mail address and approach her that way?
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Originally Posted by mommy68 View Post
it seriously sounds like what a child would go through while in a school outside the home. There are always going to be at least one child with this type of personality in all school situations.
I'd say just leave her be. If your child were in school outside your home she would need to deal with her herself or you would need to approach the teacher perhaps if it got to the point of her bullying her physically...
I can't speak for everybody, but this is one of the many reasons why my children will never go to school. I feel these type of situations need adult guidance, the presence of adults who can help the kids work through their issues and teachers simply don't have the time or resources to devote that kind of attention to every social interaction that occurs at school. I don't believe it's in kids' best interests to let two equally immature children try and work it out themselves (JMHO). One of the things I love about homeschooling is that I'm present for these interactions and can guide my kids through them when things get tough.

I would also be very careful about speaking with the mother. My little girl has acted in a similar manner to "T" (although she is only 4) and I can totally relate to the problems that come with a group of 3 children. I've seen very gentle and kind children get sucked into inclusive and exclusive behaviours when there is a group of 3, and my DD finds that number very difficult to handle. I'm not sure the mama was blaming K, just pointing out that for some kids (probably hers!) it can be tough. I know that if a mother started out by saying that their DD is getting very hurt by mine, my immediate reaction is shame and defensiveness. Instead, I might approach it this way: "it seems like K and T are working on a friendship together. that's nice. they seem to enjoy doing X and Y. I have noticed that they struggle with some issues and I'm trying to help them work through it..." then see how she responds.

Personally I think it's very important that adults be present in these situations. Can you not attend this group and watch the two girls closely, stepping in to help guide them through any conflicts? Perhaps if the other mother sees you doing this she might step in too?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by blessed View Post
So with the example of the girls above, what sort of statement would you choose? And directed to the daughter or the other child?
I don't know what I would say, because I am not in the situation, but I can give you an example of what I have done with my daughter.

My daughter, Desta, is 12. She struggles a great deal with anger issues, mainly that she will never admit to being angry about anything but instead shows it by stamping around, banging items around, giving me the silent treatment, following me around to glare at me and mutter under hear breath, etc. (And this goes way beyond just being 12; it's tied up with all the things that happened in her life pre- and post-adoption.)

In the past I have tried being more inquisitive about the problem, trying to give her a chance to verbalize what's going on. She always responded with some variation of "I'm not angry. There's no problem. Everything's fine." The conversations were unproductive because she spent all her time trying to deny that there was a problem.

Finally, I said to her one day, "You are angry with me. You are stomping around, you are muttering under your breath, you are are giving me the silent treatment. That is not ok in this house. Being angry is fine. Expressing it the way you are is not fine. It is time for you to tell me what you are angry about." I stated the problem, I gave the evidence, and I told her what I expected to happen next. It was all very forthright and direct and didn't really leave a lot of room for her to try to wiggle out. I didn't ask why, I just stated the facts.

I guess that, in the OP's situation, I was thinking of perhaps saying something like, "You girls have not been getting along. A, B, and C have happened. That's not appropriate for our group. We are going to talk about how things can work better between you two." Then the focus is on the solution, not on either girl trying to justify or defend her position, as it's already been made clear that the adults know what's going on.

Hope that helps.

dm
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We had a neighbors girl very similar to T.

She was friends with my oldest and didn't like my next dd and treated and told her so. I did talk to her mom and it took care of the problem, kinda.

She would tell my oldest she was hungry go get her food, shes thirsty go get her something to drink, oh your going out to eat? I'll go to. I like your toy give it to me ect

I did my best to keep them separate but when their your neighbor it isnt easy, they can talk to each other across the road or fence.

We moved and that worked the best, but we didnt move for that reason.

I have no advice because I myself was at a loss as to what to do. I tried a number of things and nothing but moving worked.

Being right there all the time was almost impossible just from the stand point she was our neighbor.
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if your daughter and the other girl see each other at homeschool group, i think that is more than enough. if it were my dd, i would not schedule or try to arrange playdates in addition to this. it doesn't sound like their relationship needs more one-on-one time together at all.

i would politely and privately talk to the mom, but in a manner that does not associate total blame with her daughter, as this would be offensive probably. i would word it like, "i'm not sure if you've noticed, but it seems like our daughters either get along wonderfully or are arguing. i realize this happens very often with friends and especially kids, but because our homeschool group is so small and only has a few girls our daughters age in it, i was hoping you would work with me in making their relationship as pleasant as possible. my dd really enjoys your daughter, and it makes her feel sad when they aren't getting along. how do you feel about this?"

i dunno....something like that....this is honest and focuses on a solution without having to go into details (unless later necessary). even then, i would choose my words carefully. we all love our kids a lot, and it would be hard to hear another mom say your kid's a mean bully, yk?
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My suggested approach is different. I say stop having playdates with T, stop entirely. Don't do anything outside of the large group get-togethers with her. If her mother calls to ask for a playdate, say, "Lately, they have not been getting along very well and K is always upset, so I'd prefer to wait a while before trying again. I'm sorry." Start having lots and lots of playdates with all the other girls in that age range. Start being proactive and finding even more girls in that age range for your daughter to play with and get to know. Then when it comes to the homeschool group get-togethers, your daughter will have built such close friendships with the other girls, that those girls will more naturally gravitate toward your daughter and not toward T, or at least K won't feel any need or want to go adn try to play with T and get hurt if T doesn't welcome her.

We have sort of had a similar issue with a boy and my son. My son actually has handled it pretty well, by simply refusing to play with this boy, most of the time. We had a shortage of boys in that age range so I recently started a "boy club" in our homeschool group. I was amazed at how many boys in that age range came out of the woodwork, who don't usually go to the group events but do come to the boys club. My son is making some wonderful new connections and friendships and it has been great. Perhaps something like that might work for you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piglet68 View Post
I can't speak for everybody, but this is one of the many reasons why my children will never go to school. I feel these type of situations need adult guidance, the presence of adults who can help the kids work through their issues and teachers simply don't have the time or resources to devote that kind of attention to every social interaction that occurs at school. I don't believe it's in kids' best interests to let two equally immature children try and work it out themselves (JMHO). One of the things I love about homeschooling is that I'm present for these interactions and can guide my kids through them when things get tough.
I agree, totally.
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Thank you all so much for the time you have taken to give me your thoughtful responses. It is really wonderful to have this forum. Our HS group is small and the only inclusive group in our area that meets regularly, so I really need to make things work in that group for my kids. Already my son (a middle schooler) is unhappy because there is only one other boy his age, who rarely attends; they are civil with each other but do not share interests. It is better for my daughter, as there are a few girls her age; but sometimes K and T are the only girls their age that show up at an event, so my goal truly is that things become more pleasant and tolerable for K. I do like the idea of having the moms emphasize to the girls that being exclusionary will not work in our group. And I do very much want to be sensitive to the feelings of T's mother.

RiverSky, you mentioned starting a "boy club" (in our case a "girl club") that would meet outside the group. Ironically, T's mother made a move a couple of months ago to do this very thing--including all the girls their age and even one from outside the group (who happens to be my daughter's best friend, though someone else invited her). One girl has not participated; her mother confided to me that it is because of T. But things have gotten so bad for K in that girls' club, as well, that she wants to quit, even though her best friend is in it and even though we do engaging projects. When it met at T's house, her mother did a wonderful job of leading some great activities, but then T asked everyone but K to sit by her, then refused to let K sit on her bench. She later asked her mother loudly if A, B, and C could come over for a playdate (everyone but K). Afterwards (always afterwards), K was deeply hurt and sobbing that she never wanted to go again. K has been asking to start another small girls' group with some girls she enjoys from outside our HS group, and that just might work. But I do want things to work in our HS group as well!

I really do wish I had tried to watch K's and T's interactions in the group more closely recently. I was nearby for most of the two playdates at our house, and the second one went well--but it is somewhat challenging when I have 3 kids to keep track of and also want to be friendly and visit with the other moms. When I had a toddler, I was pretty much always the mom watching everyone's kids in our group (this was years ago, and a less satisfying time for me in our homeschool group). I observed interactions that indicated some bad patterns among the children, including strong-willed, self-imposed leaders who decided what they would play and who did not honor the suggestions or requests of less assertive children. One little boy was amazingly wise and compassionate for his age, but in a group of unmoderated children (with the exception of my feeble attempts to encourage them while I chased my toddler), his insights were pretty much never given notice. The other parents seemed to be pretty strongly of the opinion that you give children the freedom to interact and work things out without intervention, or they were simply too interested in interacting with the other parents to ever get out on the playground themselves. I personally believe that kids can benefit from mingling with adults and learning from their input, and this is spelled out pretty well in the book Hold Onto Your Kids by Gordon Neufeld. I realize I've gone off on another topic, but I strongly agree with some pp's about the need for some monitoring and mature adult guidance in a group of kids. My kids are definitely included in this. IMO, this is what is lacking in school and what leads to the bad social patterns among many children.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverSky View Post
My suggested approach is different. I say stop having playdates with T, stop entirely. Don't do anything outside of the large group get-togethers with her. If her mother calls to ask for a playdate, say, "Lately, they have not been getting along very well and K is always upset, so I'd prefer to wait a while before trying again. I'm sorry." Start having lots and lots of playdates with all the other girls in that age range. Start being proactive and finding even more girls in that age range for your daughter to play with and get to know. Then when it comes to the homeschool group get-togethers, your daughter will have built such close friendships with the other girls, that those girls will more naturally gravitate toward your daughter and not toward T, or at least K won't feel any need or want to go adn try to play with T and get hurt if T doesn't welcome her.

We have sort of had a similar issue with a boy and my son. My son actually has handled it pretty well, by simply refusing to play with this boy, most of the time. We had a shortage of boys in that age range so I recently started a "boy club" in our homeschool group. I was amazed at how many boys in that age range came out of the woodwork, who don't usually go to the group events but do come to the boys club. My son is making some wonderful new connections and friendships and it has been great. Perhaps something like that might work for you?

I agree, totally.
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OP- I think you sound like you have a handle on things... there's a fine balance between interfering every time you think someones feelings will be hurt,and allowing kids to learn to work it out,I've seen extremes on both ends,and it doesn't work well either way...
But in your case, it sounds like your daughter has the right idea- start a group activitiy,inviting people she WANTS to be around. remember, homeschooling is a choice,and no one should feel forced to associate with people who are obnoxious,and this girl sounds it. Sometimes, the group works well for people,other times,it just doesn't fill the need. What might have been ideal 2 years ago,might have changed with the nedds of a growing family.
If it were me, I'd strictly limit time with obnoxious kid to general group activity(if dd wanted it) and strongly cultivate other friendships for her, homeschooled or not. You'd be amazed how strong the friendships become with great kids when just given some extra time to grow,away from negative influence...
I also don't think you're obligated to include obnoxious girl in any of your activity,though doubtless,when she sees your dd having a life away from her,she'll try again to get into her circle, only to try and disrupt again....don't be afraid to advocate for your dd! good luck!

if,after all of this,the other mother asks why her daughter isn't included,I'd tell her that your dd makes the invite list,and you choose to respect her decisions
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