[**guest**]

dd is 4. independent, stubborn and moody, explosive. this morning she wanted to paint. sure. while she is running around i set the table for her. first mistake -- should have involved her in that, but she was occupying her baby brother, so i rushed to get the paints, the paper etc.

of course when the paper is set and taped to the table, it is all WRONG

screaming. she won't be able to paint, she wants it differently. lets find a solution i say. she screams for a bit, then comes up with a solution -- this made me proud, but the solution she came up with wasn't what she wanted, so more screaming.

then i redo the paper. then she demands this and that -- more paints, to mix paints, she won't do it herself, she wants me to do it. more screaming.

:

finally she ends up painting and she is happy. i am happy because i was calm and collected, and patient without betraying my dignity and giving in.

but i keep thinking -- if she were in school, she would have just painted, like everybody else. she would not have screamed. i find this so exhausting.

i know that if she were in school, she would have come home and screamed at me anyway, about the same paints and paper. right? and the conformity would not be good for her, not for her personality. sigh.

will there be a day, one day, when she will do things happily, without major tantrums about stuff that she herself chooses to do? and it is all good for her and for us, right?

 

[Alana]

Having a child that explodes myself....it IS the best thing!! He had vacation Church school a couple weeks ago...and as my Priest's wife said "He found many things to be too undignified to do...like stand in line, raise his hand, using specific colors, etc" I know how to work with him, to talk him through things, what issues to push to teach him flexibility, what to back off on, etc. He is 6 now...and it is "easier" though we still have some hard days.

 

[UnschoolnMa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by annabanana but i keep thinking -- if she were in school, she would have just painted, like everybody else. she would not have screamed. i find this so exhausting.

It can be really tiresome.

But it sounds like you handled it extremely well. Just sounds like a bad morning for her. In school a bad morning often just immediately gets you into "trouble" and in a time out seat or some other such thing. At home you have time to gently attempt to work it out.

Quote:

will there be a day, one day, when she will do things happily, without major tantrums about stuff that she herself chooses to do? and it is all good for her and for us, right?

Well I can say with a fair amount of certainty that as kids get older and mature the explosive tantrums happen less often. Some days just go all wonky on us, but then it gets better. It's the stuff of life.

 

[slightly crunchy]

I really can identify with your post. I have been wondering the same thing about my 4 yo. I keep thinking if he went to school, though, he would end up feeling sad and unheard, because no teacher could ever have enough time to listen to him as much as he needs right now.

 

[Sneezykids]

<<I keep thinking if he went to school, though, he would end up feeling sad and unheard, because no teacher could ever have enough time to listen to him as much as he needs right now.>>

:

I have a four year old like this too, sounds like you handled it very well!

 

[**guest**]

nak

thanks guys. she actually just told me that she had a bad morning, and that she is doing much better now. i do know that school would be awful for a child like this. she would either constantly be in trouble, or submit and give up. she needs to be heard, this is it, exactly. some days are just hard on me. sigh. this is why i love this board so much.

 

[onlyzombiecat]

I think my dd would be the same challenging non-conforming person at school that she is at home- we would just get a lot of calls from teachers and principals in my vision. I can see them suggesting medication or therapy.

 

[wende]

My 11yo was like that. I litterally found myself at my moms house one day in tears saying "I don't know what to do with her anymore. I don't know how to help her. I'm losing my mind!" Now, she is one of the most amazing, sweet, thoughtful, easy going kids I've ever seen.

 

[hsmamato2]

kind of an open ended question, IMO

it depends on what you want for your daughter, what she would learn... If you don't mind all the fussing about all the little things, then the way you're handling it is fine.
if you want her to learn FAST,really fast, that she doesn't always get what she wants,and which way the paper is taped is of no consequence to others,including the other kids, that's what she'd learn there.
What I mean by that is, to some parents, this is unacceptable behavior in a child of 4 years old. To others, it is just fine, and they adapt and carry on. But the reality of most school situations is this... she'd paint the way the teacher decided,when the teacher decided to let her paint. if she didn't like, too bad.
I'm part of a large community of people, who have wide variety of parenting styles. So I'm not saying I really think one way or another, just that in school, that's what she'd learn

that's why a lot of people I know send their kids to school, believe it or not.

 

[happilyloved]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wende My 11yo was like that. I litterally found myself at my moms house one day in tears saying "I don't know what to do with her anymore. I don't know how to help her. I'm losing my mind!" Now, she is one of the most amazing, sweet, thoughtful, easy going kids I've ever seen.

It is SO good to hear things like that. DH and I have a code word for these times: "rabbit hole" as in, I feel like I fell through the rabbit hole like Alice in Wonderland. The flip side is that she is a sweet caring, intense girl. Her feelings just overwhelm her (and us!).

Ann

 

[joandsarah77]

Well screaming like that would be for me totaly unaceptable behavior. Sorry but if my daughter screamed about they way I taped her paper I would tell her to stop screaming, for her to take a deep breath or count to ten, then ask her "Is that how you ask" and have her use her voice in a more appropriate way. I would also warn her not to behave that way again or the art things would be going away. More screaming and I would do just that. Another way would be to simply walk away, but if theres any chance an angry child might tip over the paint on purpose then I wouldn't leave it out. Sorry but the way I see it you are encouraging her to scream. You are giving in by doing what she wants after she screams about it. Screaming is working very well for her so why would she change. There is a very good book called "boundries" about setting up your personal boundries of how you let others treat you. There is also a boundries with kids addition.

 

[**guest**]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joandsarah77 Well screaming like that would be for me totaly unaceptable behavior. Sorry but if my daughter screamed about they way I taped her paper I would tell her to stop screaming, for her to take a deep breath or count to ten, then ask her "Is that how you ask" and have her use her voice in a more appropriate way. I would also warn her not to behave that way again or the art things would be going away. More screaming and I would do just that. Another way would be to simply walk away, but if theres any chance an angry child might tip over the paint on purpose then I wouldn't leave it out. Sorry but the way I see it you are encouraging her to scream. You are giving in by doing what she wants after she screams about it. Screaming is working very well for her so why would she change. There is a very good book called "boundries" about setting up your personal boundries of how you let others treat you. There is also a boundries with kids addition.

perhaps i didn't explain myself well. she screamed out of frustration. when she asked for things, she did her best to control her voice, i could see the effort, and most of the time the effort was successful.

i generally try not to 'have' my kids do anything, i strive for cooperation. which does not always happen, of course. in any case, i do not believe that responding to her in an empathetic manner when she is too upset to communicate calmly encourages the screaming. she is not screaming to manipulate me, she is screaming out of frustration. yes, it is hard on me, and i am not perfect, and i do have days when i am not handling the situation as calmly and easily as i did today, but i don't see how being punitive here helps her to deal with her frustration.

 

[chaos_pie]

My son was very much like that at 4/5. He would come home from ps K, and be very rage-filled. He managed ok at school but it would all fall apart at home.

 

[momto l&a]

You could have a dd like mine who in VBS flat out said she wouldnt do whatever it was the class was doing. She also has been know to refuse some activites in the girls club she is part of, she liked her dress and didnt want it dirty.

I am proud she can stand up for herself at the age of 6.

I have that streak in my persoanlity where i will refuse to do whatever the group is suppose to be doing. I refused to play some game at summer camp when I was about 10. They told me everybody has to play I said no I dont like the game I will not play they came back with everybody has to play. I told them to make me which of course they cant,

I didnt play nor did I get kick out of camp nor did they try to convince me to do thing I didnt want to do the rest of the week.

:

All of that to say dont think your dd would put up with what she doesnt want to do or doesnt like at school.

 

[hsmamato2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by annabanana perhaps i didn't explain myself well. she screamed out of frustration. when she asked for things, she did her best to control her voice, i could see the effort, and most of the time the effort was successful. i generally try not to 'have' my kids do anything, i strive for cooperation. which does not always happen, of course. in any case, i do not believe that responding to her in an empathetic manner when she is too upset to communicate calmly encourages the screaming. she is not screaming to manipulate me, she is screaming out of frustration. yes, it is hard on me, and i am not perfect, and i do have days when i am not handling the situation as calmly and easily as i did today, but i don't see how being punitive here helps her to deal with her frustration.

Not to be argumentative, but there's a difference between being punitive and discipline,which can take many forms and is all about teaching. I think good communication is essential-That said, a screaming moment may or may not be the time to teach, but I'm one of those parents who won't accept that type of behavior from the kids. Not to say my kids haven't gone through these things, but I couldn't let it slide, I would've taken the items and calmly put them away. When my kiddo was calmer,later, and asked in a nice way, i would've helped them get the stuff again.
I think a good schoolteacher would most likely employ the same methods to teaching, though in school, the opportunity to paint would most likely have been lost for the rest of the day, due to time constraints.

 

[shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joandsarah77 Well screaming like that would be for me totaly unaceptable behavior. Sorry but if my daughter screamed about they way I taped her paper I would tell her to stop screaming, for her to take a deep breath or count to ten, then ask her "Is that how you ask" and have her use her voice in a more appropriate way. I would also warn her not to behave that way again or the art things would be going away. More screaming and I would do just that. Another way would be to simply walk away, but if theres any chance an angry child might tip over the paint on purpose then I wouldn't leave it out. Sorry but the way I see it you are encouraging her to scream. You are giving in by doing what she wants after she screams about it. Screaming is working very well for her so why would she change. There is a very good book called "boundries" about setting up your personal boundries of how you let others treat you. There is also a boundries with kids addition.

While this is all very well and true with most kids, there are those with very strong-willed personalities. A screamer is one of those. They feel the highs very high and the lows very low. I parent one of those and it is much different than parenting a child who more easily accepts disappointments.

We go through periods where disapointments are easy to handle. Other days, weeks, etc their is a lot of screaming/crying/breakdowns. All of the putting away of things in the world to "break" her of this habit will not work. At least the past 6 years hasn't done it yet. You just learn to work around the lows and enjoy the highs.

 

[slightly crunchy]

Hm, I would not say my son is "explosive". And I don't answer requests that are screamed at me, I tell him how I would like to be talked to, I would not be frantically changing the tape to just the right specifications while my child screamed at me. But I didn't see that annabanana said she did this, either.

I think I was responding more to the fact that my preschooler still seems to benefit significantly from having me around to love him and listen to him when he is feeling overwhelmed (emotion coaching for lack of a better term) or in processing interactions with his peers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wende My 11yo was like that. I litterally found myself at my moms house one day in tears saying "I don't know what to do with her anymore. I don't know how to help her. I'm losing my mind!" Now, she is one of the most amazing, sweet, thoughtful, easy going kids I've ever seen.

This is very encouraging.

 

[wende]

It did take a lot, and I mean a LOT of patience on my part. There were days that I just wanted to throw my hands in the air and give up. She's still an emotional girl, but not in a bad way. She's passionate and her feelings get hurt easilly some days (although that could be because she's 11 and may be getting ready to start her menses

) but she really is a much different child now than she was a few years ago. People constantly comment on what a wonderful person she is, and some who knew her then comment "who would have thought that Alexis would have turned out so well". So, be encouraged

I think that for many this is just a personality trait and a lot of it comes from being a perfectionist. I bet that the OP's dd is a perfectionist all on her own w/o any encouraging from her parents and that there is nothing that will change that. I think the OP handled the situation as well as she posibly could have at the time. I do have my children take a breath and repeat the request as calmly as they are able if they are at the point of screaming because I think that's respectful, but I know that sometimes the most Alexis could muster was a more subdued scream.

 

[hsmamato2]

Oh, there are definitely some kids that are harder to manage than others...for some, the whole AP way of life works beautifully, never a shriek, life is pretty gentle, but then there are those kids where it seems they need a lot of extra "training" on how to be a pleasant citizen. No question about that. Some called it strong willed, others just called my kid a brat. I didn't pay attention to any of that, b/c as a parent i knew my limits and boundaries,also the kind of person i wanted to see him become- I knew that at 2 it's normal to scream in frustration,so when I'd sit next to him in his chair while he screamed the hours away(in the front yrad sometimes, so the neighbors could see he wasn't in any danger) I knew this was hard for me to go through with patience,but at 3, verbal skills should be helping immensely,along with a sense of self,by 4 and 5, the kids understood that if they chose to scream,yell,demand or behave this way, there was no way in the world they'd get what they demand. Does this equal perfect non tantrums? Nope. just a line drawn in the sand by Mom,like I said before, every parent has a line, once you know where it is(i.e. boundary) then for kiddo there isn't any question about how far to go as they grow.
All that said, i never would have sent DS1 to school, he had way too many sensitivity/active/ issues. That never stopped me,however from expecting him to learn respectful behavior. By respectful I mean to people of all ages, not just me. Screaming in someones face isn't respectful, by the time my kids were 3 they had to apologize for that after they calmed down, it helped them feel better, sort of cleared the air. But not punishment, no, that teaches nothing.

 

[SagMom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by onlyzombiecat I think my dd would be the same challenging non-conforming person at school that she is at home- we would just get a lot of calls from teachers and principals in my vision.

BTDT! Dd was (is!) very independent and expects to have her opinions noted and wishes considered. She has perfectionist tendencies and I used to think of her as my "extreme" child. Everything was either "the best thing that happened in my whole entire life." or "The worst thing that could possibly happen."

She expects people to be reasonable and when they aren't, this causes frustration. Now, she can speak of the frustration and often affect changes, but when she was 5, and in Kindergarten, she was powerless and not much was reasonable. Getting ordered around by the teacher to do what the teacher said, exactly as she said to do it, when she said to do it, caused a lot of frustration. We got MANY calls from school about dd "acting out."

At home, she's able to say, "This is boring, I already know this and don't want to do it anymore. I'm going to go do something else." and that's perfectly fine. At school, it's considered "back talk" "not listening" "disrespect" and "rudeness" and when the teacher "makes" the child do the activity anyway (through physical force or threats) it's not surprising that the child then yells, kicks, etc. in response.

At home, of course, we discussed nicer ways of asking for what you want, but while in the throws of a meltdown was just not the time. The first step was to make things right. The second step was to discuss how to prevent the problem next time.

Things HAVE gotten better with time. Her short fuse, and her patience have both grown with her. She's not expecting perfection like she used to.

For us, the answer was NOT to *make* dd comply or act appropriately. It was to treat her with respect and consideration so that she was ABLE to act appropriately. Modeling and talking about appropriate behavior was enough after that. Of course, not being perfect, I wasn't always able to do this calmly--but I quickly learned that an authoritative response from me only fuled her outbursts. She has a deep sense that she is an equal person on this planet to all others, regardless of age.

Dd is 11 now and often described as mature, independent, smart, interesting. She is still sometimes outraged, but sometimes we should be. She speaks up for herself and makes her opinions known.

She's now entered the emotional roller-coaster that is puberty, so those early years were good practice.

I have to say, this is not nearly as hard to handle as that was though!

Hang in there!