[2babybees]

I can't say I ascribe to any parenting philosphy/technique specifically but am at wits end with my 3.5 dd and am looking for help. She is a loving wonderful child who is incredibly spirited. She was my "high need" baby and is incredibly articulate for her age. I wouldn't change a thing about her but right now all it seems we are doing is butting heads. My day is filled with "NO!"s, whining and tantrums if anything is asked of her other than what she wants to do. I know this is normal to some degree but I still need to go to the store sometimes, she does have to go to sleep at some point in the evening, does have to eat something for nourishment etc. I try to be flexible and allow her to explore her world on her own terms and we are not regimented about she "has to eat dinner now" or else sort of thing. But still it has come to a point where any minor request is met with an immediate refusal. She is definitely going through a phase where a sense of "fairness" is very prominent in her reasoning. I know that a lot of this is because of her brother's (11months) new found walking mobility and ability to say words like "mama". She has never displayed any sort of sibling angst until these two things appeared. But as I said before daily life still has to go on and I so tired of the fighting with her.

For example the other I took dd and ds to the store on an errand that I had to run. I had been putting it off for days b/c I hate having to take both of them into any store b/c this struggle always arises. dd always wants to ride in the cart. Honestly she is almost too big to fit in that little basket seat. And she won't even sit in the main part, which I don't like anyway. And usually I put ds in the seat b/c he is not much for the sling these days and is most content there. We talk about how she will walk with mommy before we arrive to the store. How she can help push the cart, help pick things out, etc etc. She always agrees when we are in the car to all of these notions. Even sounds excited. But the minute we step into the store all he!! breaks loose. As soon as I put him in the seat the whine begins. I've tried negotiating, empathizing, heck even bribery, but nothing works and it usually escalates into an out and out tantrum on the floor. What can I do?? I can't always leave one of the kids home, or both of the kids home. My dh works most nights and we have to leave to leave the house sometime! Oh please give me some GD guidance!

 

[4evermom]

Would ds be happy in a backpack carrier? I shudder at the thought of trying to grocery shop with my almost 4 y.o. without the option of putting him in the cart. Some stores have 2 seater carts now. Maybe a different store would have them and it would be worth driving a little further.

 

[mpeel]

My 8 y/o still fits in the carts around here. Though she looks quite odd. Long legs almost to the floor. For a while, I only shopped where I could use a cart that held both of them. Prior to that, the youngest had to stay in the sling. Having her on my hip helped that a lot. She could see everything. But, I did not want a child under 3 in a cart seat. They are very dangerous, even with the belts. Now, they both walk. They don't like it much. But, that's life. They could stay with Daddy but chose to come with me.

 

[2babybees]

I appreciate the cart recommendations, actually the cart seats are not recommended for children over 35lbs according to the warnings on all of the ones I've seen. But it was really more of an example of her behaviour that I am trying to remedy/ work with... She has similiar reactions to me asking her to leave the house if she still wants to be playing with her friends. Or bedtime etc, etc, etc.

 

[Fuamami]

I'm not very good about the GD "rules", and I don't have a child this old yet, but what if you just stopped requesting, and subsequently stopped fighting? This works pretty well with my daughter, who is definitely full of NOs. Whenever I can ask, I do so politely, with a please. But if her refusal is not an option, I tell her, also politely, but more firmly, what she needs to do. If she doesn't do it, I'll repeat it once or twice, depending on how engrossed/tired/far away/grouchy she is, and then I'll go and take her gently by the hand and lead her to do it. Mostly, by the time I get close enough to take her hand she is already going. I don't force her, and I never have to drag her, and she's not scared of me, but it's just the sign that it's time to go and do it.

Someone did a thread on here about expectations, I think her username was Maya44 or something like that. Anyway, it's about expecting that your child's going to do what you want. This is the attitude that I try to cultivate, one that her not doing something when I've said she must is even an option. So I guess I'm saying that I wouldn't negotiate, bribe, or empathize. I guess I'd just ignore, especially whining. And then after the task was accomplished, I'd pretend like all the protesting that went along with it didn't happen, and I would just thank her for doing it like she had cheerfully taken the initiative.

One other thing, I personally think it's good for a child's self esteem to feel that they're part of the family machine, and that they are part of making the household run smoothly. Maybe if you couched it in the terms of "what we need to accomplish" or "you can help me at the store" then it would help her feel like she needed to be responsible for sticking close and finding the things you needed. Especially since you say she's articulate.

 

[Unagidon]

We've been trying the 'stand and wait' approach, and it's been working w/our 5 yo. Basically you say 'It's time to go to the store. Please put on your shoes.' When ds complains, whines or doesn't do it, we repeat the demand, shorter. 'Shoes, please.' Then I walk over to ds, and stand there and wait, making eye contact. The whining, tantrum, etc. that comes next is met with stone silence, just looking him in the eye, waiting for him to comply. He does. It works!

I couldn't believe it the first time I tried it. Now I'm sure it won't work all the time, but it's a nice tool for the toolbox.

Re the shopping cart seat, I wonder what is motivating her to want to do that. Why do you think she wants to be in the seat?

 

[maya44]

Quote:

Originally Posted by natensarah I Someone did a thread on here about expectations, I think her username was Maya44 or something like that. Anyway, it's about expecting that your child's going to do what you want. This is the attitude that I try to cultivate, one that her not doing something when I've said she must is even an option. So I guess I'm saying that I wouldn't negotiate, bribe, or empathize. I guess I'd just ignore, especially whining. And then after the task was accomplished, I'd pretend like all the protesting that went along with it didn't happen, and I would just thank her for doing it like she had cheerfully taken the initiative.

Okay, Maya44 here. Except for the empathizing part, this is exactly what I would do. I mean, I would empathize. I would say

"I know you dont' like it and I am truly sorry I know you prob don't think its fair that your brother is in the cart. BUT there is no choice. You have to do this. You must walk along side of me."

You have to mean this. She will be able to pick up in her heart if you don't mean it, if you are considering backing down.

I would steel myself for her tantrums.

And I would do some deliberate "practice runs" where you need only one or two items so you can get out of there FAST. Once she sees her tantrums are not going to change the plan (we are going to get bread and milk). I think it should be somewhat better.

I know this is just one example, but I think this is what you have to do in circumstances like this. Tell her that you know that she does not want to do x, y, or z but that you expect her to.

At your home, it should be even easier.

 

[Piglet68]

How about bringing along snacks? That always kept my DD happy when we did long shopping trips.

I also agree that sometimes you just need to "tell" your child what the deal is and then expect them to do it. If they don't, go to them and help them. ITA with the others that if you just expect it is going to get done it does seem to work.

If all else fails, and really there is just going to be a tantrum, try to empathize with her and give her what she needs (hugs, space, etc) and then continue on with what you are doing.

 

[Ayala Eilon]

I find that any time my children don't respond to me it tells me that I am asking the impossible. The proof? They are not doing it. So I adujust my expectations to their needs. I loosen up. With four children I had to learn.
Sleep time, meal time, and even brushing teeth are no life threatenning when dealt with flexibly. I find that if I am in bed, the whole gang follows so if I really want that, I go to bed. But generally I learned to let go of being the director and flow with things. But I am not permissive either. It is just that when the children find that life goes their way, they respond to my guidance without much resistance most of the time.
I don't take my children shopping. I just told my husband that there is no choice but for either him to shop, or him to be home with the kids while I shop. I didn't leave the door open for anything else. I must admit that this was the result of a workshop I took with Dr. Naomi Aldort. She teaches how to be a fierce and loving mother and wife. I love it. What I cannot do I don't do. Taking the children shopping is not a possibility. Tada.

 

[BellinghamCrunchie]

It sounds like maybe she is becoming jealous of/resentful of her sibling, and expressing this more by whining, refusing to do what she is asked, seeking (and getting) negative attention.

Do you think it would help to spend more one-on-one time with her? Maybe have someone sit with the younger one while you take her shopping to see if it is the presence of the younger one that is difficult for her. Or to the park to run some energy out, just the two of you. It seems like she's gotten into a pattern of wanting a lot of attention but most of it is negative attention; maybe scheduling one-on-one activities or activities with her sibling that are fun for both of them and have very few rules to follow so that most of the interactions with her are positive would help turn things around.

 

[DevaMajka]

Did you see the Malcolm in tht Middle where Dewey (Maybe 5 or 6?) starts eating baby food (He has brother about 10 mos old maybe), and makes a proposal to his mom that he'll be cute and sweet and cuddly, and in return, he'll stop going to school, eat baby food, wear baby clothes, etc. He even has on a diaper and starts to "go" in order to show his mom his "level of commitment" lol.
Ok, not terribly relevant or helpful, but it was on last night, and it was funny. lol

I agree that one on one time could be helpful. Also, perhaps you could talk to her about it. If she won't talk about it, you could tell a story similar (but not exactly) to something that's happened, and see what types of things she says about it, if she adds anything, etc. Or you could play-act with some toys, and start a scenario similar (but not exactly) to something that's happened. See what her character says and does. That could give you some insights into the specifics of how she's feeling.
I was thinking you could tell her that her job is to be the big sister, but that could really backfire, so maybe not the best idea. She may resent it.

And I really think there is a lot in the *expectation* of the parent. Have you read TCC? Kids are more likely to do what they percieve their parent expect that they *will* do. (Not "I expect you to do x" because if you have to say it, you don't truly believe that that's what they would do. does that make sense?).
So try to get yourself to a place where you can expect that dd will cooperate with you (for lack of a better term). Start small. Make sure that you're not stopping her from anything that's important to her (like interupting playing), make sure that you can take your time to do whatever the task is (you can wait for her if she gets sidetracked), make sure that YOU can sense that she's ready for it.
You could say something like "I see you're torn between wanting to help mama shop, and riding in the cart." Something like that, to show her that you know that she has good intentions to do what you had talked about. kwim?
Give her some time to figure it out in her head.
Oh, and perhaps when you get in the store, give her a really specific task. "I'd like you to help me pick the best oranges we can find!" (then be prepared for orange picking to take forever lol)
As far as leaving a friend's house, I really liked the op in the thread "5 minute warnings" or something similar. It should be on page one or two.

(oh, and my ds is 21 mos, so everything I wrote is just theory for an older dc

)

 

[Naughty Dingo]

Do you have a market with kid sized carts? At my coop they have these and my older DD now "does all the work" as we fill her little cart with our food. And she gets to push it. Little DD gets to ride in the big cart that I push along to carry the big stuff like milk Big DD is pretty stoked about this arrangment.

If you have no other choices, I think I would second the "Avoid the situation" idea. Could you go in an evening just with her, or all alone? (ahhhhhhhhh)

Can you do a once a week shop with the whole family? that way ds could sit in a stroller and DD could ride in the cart?

It is so hard, I feel for you. I am totally frustrated with my 4 year old right now and none of my strategies seem to be working. Yowza.

Edited to add that my older DD really freaked out when little DD started being mobile and getting into her stuff. She had been a dream before that. I had to really work with her to teach her to verbalize her anger and frustration. She was about 3 at the time and didn't have those skills. I also get the feeling she didn't think it was OK to be mad about her little sister. LOL I kind of wish we could regress to those days now haha.

ND

 

[lisac77]

I don't know if this would work for you, but I've recently started shopping with my son in a stroller. He's also really too big/heavy for the cart, and he LOVES his stroller. I do have to make more frequent trips, but it is worth it for his cooperation and we both really enjoy shopping trips now.

I was thinking the other day what I would do if I had him and a baby (I have major baby lust right now) and I decided that I would put the baby in a sling and have DS in the stroller.

Just a thought...

 

[lilylove]

I just thought I would mention that this thread is nearly a year old.
The OP might not be having the same issues

But then maybe someone else is and is reading it right now

 

[claras_mom]

Couple of the supermarkets in our area have carts attached to kiddie cars--the kids ride in front, "steering" and whatever, and the grocery cart, complete with the regular seat in the basket is attached. If there were a store with these, and if she got a kick out of them, then maybe trips to that store could be used in conjunction with some of the other strategies mentioned in this thread...like, as a treat.