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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I tried finding the answer in the below posts but couldn't, and I don't honestly know this answer.<br><br>
My situation-<br><br>
I have 3 children, 9yo dd, 5 yo ds (circ'd, terrible pressure from hubby!) and 2 yo ds (intact, I didn't give this time, thanks to the info you all gave me 2 1/2 years ago!).<br><br>
2 yo ds had a new doctors appt this morning, as we wanted all our children to have a well child check up and they hadn't been seen by a MD in a couple years (the 2yo hadn't seen a doctor since age 9 months). Anyway, when she was doing the testical exam she retracted him before I knew to say "Stop! I don't think you should do that" but then again, I don't know IF it's the wrong thing or not. Anyone? I asked her after the fact about retracting and she said at age 2 it's fine and to wash him there, but this doesn't sound like something I read here a few years ago.<br><br>
If I can get word on otherwise, I'm going to take it in to her. She is a nice doc and accepted, happily, all my breastfeeding literature I took in to her today (which was a lot). She was also respectful of me not vaccinating yet and telling her my hubby and I wanted to review most of them to see what we want and feel he should get and what to avoid.<br><br>
Thanks for helping this clueless mom out <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment"><br><br><br>
FORGOT TO ADD-my son has pulled numerous times on his penis and has figured out how to retract and does it a lot, usually with a lot of cracking up on his part :LOL . So, when the doctor did this today it looked non-painful to my son and 'seemed' fine.
 

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The only time a foreskin should be retracted is by the owner of said foreskin (or sexual partner of said owner)<br><br>
-Angela
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
But can this one episode cause him long term harm if he already is doing this to himself? Geesh, this baby sticks his finger down into his penis and it makes me cringe, it looks PAINFUL and he just laughs!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>lactationmom</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">But can this one episode cause him long term harm if he already is doing this to himself? Geesh, this baby sticks his finger down into his penis and it makes me cringe, it looks PAINFUL and he just laughs!</div>
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No, it most likely won't, but here are my thoughts on the matter (and forgive me if I seem overprotective, I'm still steaming about my dr visit with my infant son today...)<br><br>
I consider my son's foreskin to be similar to a baby girl's labia. It's ok for a dr to LOOK on the outside to make sure everything is ok, but I would NEVER allow a dr to look inside her vagina, using any means. same goes for my son's penis. It's obviously healthy, no issues, so it is unacceptable for a dr to go manipulating his foreskin to reveal what the foreskin is protecting. I consider it to be extremely violating. So even if he's retractable, unless there is a problem that needs to be addressed, I see zero reason why a dr should be trying to expose the head of a baby penis, retractable or not.
 

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She was far out of line to do that. Few boys are naturally retractile at 2 years old and for those, she would be causing irreversible damage. There is simply no reason to look in there. Anything that is wrong will quickly show symptoms on the outside, normally within 24 hours.<br><br>
In your case, no damage was done because your son was already naturally retractile but just imagine if he hadn't been. You would have a sore baby possibly with a bleeding penis at risk of permanent adhesions and infections. It's really the wrong thing to do for any reason.<br><br>
One of the most common infections of the penis is staph infections and guess where the most likely place to get infected with a staph infection? A medical facility such as a doctor's office or hospital and these locations are also the source of MRSA infections or Multi Resistant Staph Aureus, the staph infection that is resistant to all but the most powerful antibiotics. By retracting the foreskin, she was greatly increasing the chance of him being infected. Not a good thing when there was no reason to be looking in there in the first place.<br><br><br><br>
Frank
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>lactationmom</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I asked her after the fact about retracting and she said at age 2 it's fine and to wash him there</div>
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Ditto to what everyone else said except I'd like to add <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shake.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shake"> .<br><br>
Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong but retracting and "washing", at least with soap, might be harsh so I think you might want to avoid that.<br><br>
Since the doc is respectful of you investigating/delaying/declining vax's, you might wanna keep 'er <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"> , just bring her the AAP intact penis care recommendations or a pamphlet from nocirc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I KNEW I could count on you all to help me out! Thank you! I'll keep a close eye on him to make sure nothing comes of this. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br>
Emmy-I hadn't thought of it that way, but I can now say I won't ever think of it any other way than the vision you just gave me. Oh my, I am just really glad he has done this to himself and it didn't phase him, I'd be sick right now if not!<br><br><br>
Ok, now I would love it if one of you could point me to a medically-based site that discusses NOT to ever retract a 2 yo's foreskin. I have only found 'infant's, it doesn't mention toddlers which is what I need when I go back in there to get my older childs records transferred. She is very sweet but obviously doesn't know the harm she can cause, so I want to give it to her and let her know so she doesn't do this again.
 

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My older guy is four and has never, ever been retracted by our family doc. To echo other posters, there is simply no need. No more of a need than a two year old girl needing a vaginal exam with a speculum.<br><br>
Having said that though, since your son is retracting freely, I don't think her retracting him was necessarily harmful, inappropriate, but not harmful. I would be more concerned for those patients of hers who are not yet retractible and come to their two year check-up. You can't really tell if a child is retractible unless you try to retract and by that time, if the child is not, it is too late <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> .<br><br>
Maybe pass this along to her if you are willing:<br><a href="http://www.cirp.org/library/normal/aap" target="_blank">http://www.cirp.org/library/normal/aap</a><br><br>
ETA: Sorry, I guess we were both typing away at the same time <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue"> .....I hope my post is still of some use to ya!<br><br>
Take care,<br>
Tara
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thank you, that is EXACTLY what I needed. I am printing it now to give to her next week.<br><br>
This probably just helped a lot of babies, thanks again everyone. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>InDaPhunk</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong but retracting and "washing", at least with soap, might be harsh so I think you might want to avoid that.</div>
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While it may be OK for a teen or adult, soap should not be used on young children as it can cause irritation of the mucosal skin surfaces and will change the pH of the preputial space from acidic and that normal acidic pH is part of the immune system.<br><br>
I guess that knocks the old "difficult to clean" myth in the head, huh? BTW, I once heard of a doctor telling a mother to wipe the inner foreskin and glans down with alcohol. She was almost in tears because everytime she did it her son screamed. Well, I guess so! I once was using some deodorant that was in a squeeze bottle spray and the thing literally exploded in my hand and the deodorant (containing alcohol) splashed on that area. I was partially dressed and was in the shower trying to get that fire-liquid off of me! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/biglaugh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="laugh">:<br><br><br><br>
Frank
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Frankly Speaking</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">BTW, I once heard of a doctor telling a mother to wipe the inner foreskin and glans down with alcohol. She was almost in tears because everytime she did it her son screamed. Well, I guess so!</div>
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What an ignorant , bleeping doctor. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry"> Poor baby, ouch!
 

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Copied from one of my old postes:<br><br><br>
Some current position statements from medical associations who arguably have researched more than I, my mother in law, and my pediatrician combined…<br><br><br>
American Academy of Pediatrics - Care for the Uncircumcised Penis: <a href="http://www.medem.com/search/article...h_typ=NAV_SERCH" target="_blank">http://www.medem.com/search/article...h_typ=NAV_SERCH</a><br><br>
“Sometime during the first several years of your son's life, his foreskin, which covers the head of the penis, will separate from the glans. Some foreskins separate soon after birth or even before birth, but this is rare. When it happens is different for every child. It may take a few weeks, months or years. … Most boys will be able to retract their foreskins by the time they are 5 years old, yet others will not be able to until the teenage years. As a boy becomes more aware of his body, he will most likely discover how to retract his own foreskin. But foreskin retraction should never be forced. Until separation occurs, do not try to pull the foreskin back — especially an infant's. Forcing the foreskin to retract before it is ready may severely harm the penis and cause pain, bleeding and tears in the skin.”<br><br><br>
Canadian Pediatric Society: <a href="http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/babies/Circumcision.htm" target="_blank">www.caringforkids.cps.ca/babies/Circumcision.htm</a><br><br>
“The foreskin covers the shaft and head (glans) of a boy’s penis. During the early years of a boy’s life, the foreskin separates from the glans. This is a natural process that occurs over time. You do not need to do anything to make it happen. … Keep your baby’s penis clean by gently washing the area during his bath. Do not try to pull back the foreskin. Usually, it is not fully retractable until a boy is 3 to 5 years old, or even until after puberty. Never force it.”<br><br><br>
The Royal Australasian College of Physicians (Former Australian College of Paediatrics): <a href="http://www.racp.edu.au/hpu/paed/cir...ion/anatomy.htm" target="_blank">http://www.racp.edu.au/hpu/paed/cir...ion/anatomy.htm</a><br><br>
“It is normal for the inner surface of the foreskin to be fused to the glans in newborn males. Separation of the foreskin from the glans occurs spontaneously during childhood. By five years of age most of boys are able to retract their foreskin. A small percentage of boys are unable to fully retract their foreskin until puberty. The foreskin requires no special care during infancy. It should be left alone. Attempts to forcibly retract it are painful, often injure the foreskin, and can lead to scarring and phimosis.”<br><br><br>
Common denominator: May not retract till teen years. Do not retract. No problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I printed off the AAP statement and am going to give it to her next week when I go in, along with my comments that although I am not mad or upset with her (because luckily my son seems fine) I wanted her to know the correct way to treat an intact toddler-to leave it alone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Actually, you all will appreciate this.<br><br>
In the 'offending' peds office of 8 docs or so, they have a 'comment sheet' to write down all comments pertaining to that office. I took 2 sheets. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin"><br><br>
After filling it out it goes to the main "Knoxville Pediatric Association" so that MANY pediatricians will get this info, NOT just her. I will tell her in person, but am going to send these papers along with my comment sheet so that MANY of the local peds are notified at once. I am sending the AAP statement AND the nocirc paper which has a part mentioning lawsuits-ought to stop them in their tracks! (not that I am out to cause harm to this one ped, like I said, she is very kind just out of touch with current intact children care!).
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Sheacoby</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">What an ignorant , bleeping doctor. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry"> Poor baby, ouch!</div>
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Hmmph, the mom should have had enough sense not to do anything that caused her baby to scream like that. If our pediatrician told us to _____ and we did it and it caused Antonin pain you can bet we wouldn't just keep doing it. "Must do _____. Doctor said so. Must do _____. Doctor said so..."<br><br>
~Nay
 

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Yep, theyre great about it too. My pediatrician hasn't attempted to even touch his penis since then.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>AntoninBeGonin</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Hmmph, the mom should have had enough sense not to do anything that caused her baby to scream like that. If our pediatrician told us to _____ and we did it and it caused Antonin pain you can bet we wouldn't just keep doing it. "Must do _____. Doctor said so. Must do _____. Doctor said so..."<br><br>
~Nay</div>
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You are right! I think that mom was a freaking idiot for doing it. I hate that so many blindly follow the advice of doctors, even when it goes against simple logic.
 

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lactationmom<br><br>
I am glad to see so many references here for your comments. Please come back to tell what response you had from the doctor or the office or the Knoxville Pediatric Association.<br><br>
I am so glad that your son was previously retractile. My son is 4 1/2 and not retractile in the slightest. Her retraction would have been excruciating and damaging to him.<br><br>
Spread the word. Protect the intact!
 
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