When is it time to give up on a marriage?

No judgement coming from me. You know the situation I'm in, and I have no idea how that's going to turn out.

I think sometimes people just outgrow each other. I was in a relationship for a few years where I did all the maturing, and he continued to act like a 17 year old kid. Now, 15 years later, he's acting like he's in his early 20's. He just doesn't grow as a person at any kind of reasonable rate. I learned that I can't be in a relationship like that, and made sure my husband knew early on that it wouldn't work out if he didn't continuously try to grow and improve himself as a person.

I don't know if marriage counseling will help you at all. If you can swing it, then it's probably worth a try. A trial separation (if you could make that happen) might knock some sense into him. And it might not make any difference at all. You don't know unless you try. Maybe you can stay in the same home, but make things more difficult for him - make him step up to the plate more, somehow.

I try to remember that we're constantly changing beings. Some of us just change more quickly than others, or go in completely different directions. People who were perfect together once become less and less compatible. Sometimes there's nothing we can do about that without completely compromising ourselves in ways we're not willing to do.

You're the only one who can figure out how much more you're willing or able to do to try to make things work. You have to decide where your breaking point is.

I go back and forth in my relationship almost daily. There are days when I'm looking up divorce lawyers and law. And there are days when I'm thrilled to be in his arms. But, I've decided that I want things resolved, one way or another, by the end of summer. Maybe you'll decide you want to see real changes in your husband's attitudes and actions by a certain date, or you're leaving the relationship. Just make sure you communicate that to him.

Let me know if I can help in some way, whether with childcare, or a night out, or just a phone call.

Thinking of you. I'm sorry you're going through this.

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That's pretty much it, nail on the head.

DEBI I love you! When I was typing that out this morning I realized your about the only friend I have who would understand where I was at s Thanks for the shout out and help. You mentioned
"Maybe you can stay in the same home, but make things more difficult for him - make him step up to the plate more, somehow."

I'm not sure I understand that statement can you elaborate?

We are both busy people right now. He works full time and goes to school 2 nights a week. This will not change anytime soon he refuses to take less then 2 classes a semester. And I work 4 part time jobs. That on top of 2 small kids is stressful, hey did I mention moving next week, lol. But even without the added stress it hasn't been good in a long while IMO. I personally would like to try a trial separation even if it would just scare the pants off him. But financially there is absolutely no what to swing it. We live in a high cost of living area and just don't make enough money to pay 2 rents. This is the major thing that has held me back in wanting to leave the relationship. I guess I'm not willing to trade my stressful marriage for living in near poverty....yet. I feel lost as to what to do with my life, I feel like I'm along for the ride and have no control where it takes me.

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You're welcome. I love you too!
Well, for example: If you do all the laundry, leave his clothes for him to wash, dry, fold, and put away. If you're making a special effort to include him in meals, or making him lunch, or whatever, stop doing that. Make it so that he has to do more for himself and doesn't depend on you to do everything. If you're doing all the prep work - organizing meals, making sure there are enough diapers, etc - before leaving the kids with him and going to work, stop doing that. Maybe he'll whine and act helpless, but he'll have to deal with the situations himself if you're unavailable or unwilling. And he'll either step up to the plate or fall flat on his face. But, it will show what he's willing to do, and what he's capable of doing. Just make sure you give him time to do it himself. Don't just start doing for him again when he displays incompetence or whatever. Yes, it can be considered manipulative and game-playing. But, it may show that you mean business when you say that you expect him to do his share. It really sounds like he's perfectly happy to be lazy and leave all the work and thinking to you. This is one way that you can show that such an attitude doesn't fly with you.

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I definitely recommend putting any major family purchases on hold until you figure out what you're going to do with your relationship. You don't want to end up with a big-ticket item that you can't use or effectively split in half if you split up.
Thinking of you.

I wasn't married as long as you have been, but your OP was something I could have written two years ago.

I did finally insist on counseling (as in, we will go to counseling now, or we will divorce). I was serious enough about it that I would have left had he refused the counseling... I had just had enough of being unhappy and I realized that the relationship we had was not a relationship I would be glad to see either of my children being a part of once they were adults. Yet that was what I was modeling to them, so how could I realistically hope for anything else for them, yk?

Anywho, we went to three counseling sessions, during which he complained about me to the counselor and refused to even attempt any communication improvement. The last session we went to, the counselor gave him homework of planning and executing a date (finding and arranging for a sitter, etc) and then we were to call and make the next appointment after the date. Never happened. I really think, looking back, the counselor knew that was what would happen (I sure did!) and used it as a wake-up call for me. That's the story I'm going with, anyway. It was successful, somewhat, as it did make it quite clear to me that he had no interest in improving our marriage.... which I should have known already, as he repeatedly told me he didn't know why we were going to counseling since he was completely happy with the way things were. Hello, Denial anyone? LOL

That still wasn't quite enough for me to leave, but it was what started me seriously considering it. I made out pro/con lists (in my head, not on paper!) and really tried to think about what was best for the kids, what was best for me. I did not care about what was best for him.... by that point, it was really more of a financial decision (yes, how sad is that!!).

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The above quote was exactly where I was, for several months. That was it. I was staying for a comfortable life for my kids. And feeling like sh!t about it, b/c at the same time I knew I was modeling an unhealthy relationship for them. The tradeoff wasn't OK.

We went to visit my mom for the summer (a yearly event) and as the time came to return, I just could not make myself get on that plane. That was it. I asked ex if he was interested in a separation and trying to make things still work and he flat said no. Which was fine with me, I was done as well. I just wanted to be sure I had done everything I could to make it work.

Sometimes it just doesn't work. One person can work hard as can be, but a true marriage takes two.

I say if you can afford it, try the counseling. Best result - it's a success and your marriage improves. Worst result - marriage ends up not working out, but at least you know you gave it your best shot.

Oh!! I forgot the whole reason I pulled that quote - I was terrified to be a poor, uneducated, single mom. I knew ex would not be helpful or concerned aobut the kids once I wasn't there to make him. I had terrible pictures of us in a tiny apartment, me scrimping and saving to make ends meet, etc. It's all come true - and IT IS WORTH IT. I wouldn't change a thing. The kids and I are all HAPPY and FLOURISHING. Yup, we don't have much money for extras... but we get by. Yup, it's tough being the only adult and having all the responsibilities.....but in reality that's how it was before, I just had more disposable income.

I probably wouldn't have left earlier - my DD was still nursing, and I wouldn't ahve wanted to put her in daycare any earlier than I did. If my kids were already in other care, however, I would have left MUCH earlier. We are all so much happier than i could ever have dreamed we would be.

I'm not encouraging you to leave, but if that's how things end up working out, it's not as bad as you think it may be.

Give counseling a shot. I hope it helps you two.

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that was my experience and after we did trial sepration i felt this huge weight off my chest. there was no way i could go back to such my negativity and mistreatment. but i would give it a shot so you know you tried...

good luck

I saw someone on the board recommend thia book "The Divorce Remedy". I put it on hold at the library, anyone read it? I'll see if it provides any answers but I don't think there is a section called "How to magically get your husband to stop treating you like a door mat",

So he doesn't carry his weight in keeping up the household? I'd think counseling could be helpful with that.

In my mind, counseling is a step towards trying to fix the problems. A trial separation is (IMO) like giving up, a step toward divorce. I'm curious as to the percentage of people who get back together vs. divorce after a separation. I don't think it necessarily "scares the pants off him" as someone mentioned so much as embarrassing him and being a signal that it is over.

Have you always fought over division of labor, or just since having kids?

Is he worried about your weight loss? I think my dp was torn about mine; I think he felt more secure when I was heavier.

I understand changing. I feel like both dp and I are completely different people today - almost 17 years after we got married. I don't know that either of us would pick the other again, now. But we have three kids. And the grass isn't always greener. There are highs and lows. You trudge through the lows, and work on making it better.

My two cents.

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I read that book and at the time I thought it was great. I now think after reading it I ended up staying longer than I should have. I feel like it gave me false hope. It sort of advocated going about your business, keeping busy, finding your own interests, and waiting for the other person to want to come back. He knew how much I didn't want a divorce and I think he just took advantage of that to see how far he could push me. And because I thought I just needed to hang out and eventually he would come around, I fell for way too much of his BS.

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I totally know this conflict!

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Yes we have always fought over labor but it wasn't such a heavy task before we had kids.

I can't fathom what is in his head about my weight loss. He tells me I'm "too thin" that I'm "lost to much weight" ummm I weigh 175 lbs I feel I have more weight to loose. He's totally unsuppotive of my disition to change my life and get healthy.

We have had a couple good discussions and some time together in the past few days. Expecally the "Your son yells in my face for days after you and I scream at each other. It's starting to affect him, can you see that? It's STRESSING ME OUT!"