[arcenciel]

I already posted about my 4 year old ds being stubborn, I was just frustrated at the time and not very clear about what was really happening.

One of the things that happens often is that I want him to do something - for example to go out my room while I get dressed (I don't do this every time, just sometimes I feel a need for a couple of minutes space) and he doesn't want to do it. So I start of asking him nicely. He says no. Then I get down to his level and explain why I need a couple of minutes and I will be with him afterwards. And he insists he's not going to do it. So I carry on being nice but insistant for a bit and he carries on refusing and then I usually end up yelling at him and shutting him out. So then he stands outside screaming while I get dressed and I don't get my time and he doesn't get what he wanted..... If I'm lucky and dh is around he will come and distract him, but even then it is a question of dragging him away.

This is just an example. What do you do? I guess there are some things I could be a bit more flexible about. But what do you do in a situation where there is no give - in this example it's because I need that time out but there are other things like going out, etc

How do you gd that?

 

[girrllie]

I have the same question. I go through this with my DD, 3 in August, as well. Usually some distraction will work. When I really need some space, i set her up with a movie and explain to her that Mommy needs to rest or needs some space. Then I keep the bedroom door open so that I'm accessible to her and she can come and check in if she needs to.

Other times, I ask her to do something, like move over in the bed b/c I need to lie down and she just refuses. Then I try to move her physically (or yell) and we always end up getting in a battle about it, tears and all. Sounds very similiar to what you describe. I'm slowly realizing that a physcial solution hardly ever works for me, rather leads to crying. Taking a few more minutes to distract, explain, be flexible myself, etc. works much better. That's very hard to remember though when I'm really tired or stressed out and just want her to do something!

Also want to add, that I'm new to this board and am so happy it's here. I'm really struggling with GD as DD gets older and has more a mind of her own!

 

[Camellia]

Choices, choices, choices...This is my method for most of the "stubburn" issues.

In your situation you described I would offer my ds two choices:

1.) You can go and build a new train track design while I get dressed and I'll be right with you.

or

2.) You can go choose a book you would like me to read you and wait on the couch with it while I get dressed.

If after being offered two wonderful choices and given time to decide I would tell him that he can choose or I will and then I could also help him move his body to the other room.

In my experience with my son if the choices are refused I look to hunger, fatigue, or some emotional upset. At least with my son, if he is being offered desirable choices in a warm friendly way we don't have any problems unless he has some physical or emotional need.

Today for example, we were trying to leave the Pizza Parlor and my 5.5 y/o son through himself on the floor crying. (he *rarely* had tantrums as a toddler). I offered choices, offered hugs, and comforting words. Nothing worked. This is a child who hasn't napped but 10 times in 3 years and he is in his room asleep right now at 6pm in the evening and has been asleep for 2 hours.

Sorry I have gone off a bit, but I reccomend offering choices, if that doesn't work look for signs of fatigue (because I am assuming he won't admit being tired) and ask him if he is hungry or has something that is bothering him.

Good Luck!

 

[luv my 2 sweeties]

I wish I had advice to offer -- I'm as stumped as you on this one. My dd will be four this week, and one of her favorite phrases is a calm, "No, I won't." Another is "NO! I *won't*!"

: The tactic I have the most success with (although it's by no means 100% effective) is to make her an offer she can't refuse. "Well, you can either do what I asked you to do, or you can skip the snack I was about to make." That actually sounds much closer to GD than what I actually do. I think I usually raise my voice first to the "You don't talk like that to me, missy" tone my mother used to use.

*Then* I threaten to take away a privelige or, if I can't think of anything else, a time out. I hate doing time out. Sometimes it's the only consequence I can think of, though. I really hope someone has some good ideas for us!

BTW, I love the "As soon as you ____, then we can ___" strategy in theory. But it doesn't work very well with my dd unless we happen to be about to do something she *really* doesn't want to miss.

 

[PM]

Go get dressed in the bathroom?

Take an extra 5 minutes to lead him into play elsewhere?

Make a game of it? Be silly about it. Try to get dressed without ever showing a piece of skin or get dressed while singing in the closet?

Re-examine your demands and ask yourself if you are not the one who is being stubborn (just a thought).

 

[Nanner]

Mt dd will be 4 in September and I am also struggling with GD as she gets older, the first couple of years were a piece of cake- and she was not an easy-going baby/young toddler either!
SOmehow, I seemed to have dropped the ball some of the time as she has gotten such a strong opinion *and* great language skills to express it!
One thing I have relaized is, that along with all of the positive attention/redirecting/getting on her level,etc., I also need to remember she is still little enough for me to just go physically achieve what needs to be done (or not done). I think now that she is so good at arguing, I tend to do just that with her. That only serves to piss me and her both off and then I yell and lecture (not good!)
So, what helps for me is to try to be just as firm and direct as when she was littler, without arguing on the point, even when I know it is going to really tick her off and a tantrum will ensue.
Also, I *try* to remain calm when she goes into her theatrics, but not get pulled into it, just basically stand aside and ride it out.
It does help a lot for us, but not a cure-all.
Good luck, the three's (and I hear four's too) are hard!
Sara

 

[Cranberry]

I've had this problem with my 4yo ds too. I have had some success if I get him interested in something in his room and then tell him I'll be right back. Now he sometimes says "Can I play in my room while you get dressed?" Other times I just have to get dressed fast!

 

[PM]

I had another idea. But I don't know if this would for your family (it wouldn't for mine - my dd doesn't even know the words gross or disgusting). Could you gross him out? Like say, "You know, ds, I really feel like I need to fart in private right now. I think it's going to be pretty stinky, too!" :LOL

I crack myself up!

 

[sunnmama]

Regarding the example in your op, my observation is that it generally does not go well when I ask dd to leave the room I am in. Maybe he experiences it as rejection? I usually have a better outcome if I get her interested in something first and then return alone, or if I go to another room to be alone. If she follows me and *refuses to give me my needed alone time, then she clearly has a need at that moment. Sometimes just taking 5 minutes to hold her on my lap and snuggle helps to reduce the tension, and makes us both more flexible.

Leaving the room when you need time alone and going out--these both seem like "stress-filled" times to me. Does he have trouble with transition? Have you tried giving him warnings, like "we will be leaving in 10 minutes--find a stopping place with your game" "we will be leaving in 5 minutes--let's clean up these blocks" "we will be leaving in 1 minute--lets put on your shoes".
Also, if it is a matter of him being stressed (in addition to doing whatever you can do to make these times less stressful for him), you could help him to understand the stressful feelings in his body, and empathize with him "You don't like stopping your game to get ready to go out." "Hurrying is stressful for you"

 

[FreeRangeMama]

The first thing I do with my ds is to ask myself if this is REALLY a realistic expectation for him. If it is I can often just ask for his help to find a solution. If I was in your situation I would just ask, "Mama really wants a few minutes to myself to get dressed. You really want to be in here with me. What can we do that will make us both happy?" This works great in our family. although I may have to change the wording or repeat myself once or twice. We have solved disputes over computer time, arguments over toys, a few minutes of peace and quiet for Mama, fun activities for the day, you name it. He is 3, yet he totally grasps this concept. He really likes that we respect his desires and we feel we are treating him to respect the desires of others as well. The key for us is to be open to his suggestions and be willing to negotiate.

Good luck

 

[loving-my-babies]

I totally relate. My dd (3) just threw a fit at the mall because she didn't want to go home. I sometimes feel there is no room for GD because she won't LISTEN. nothing at all, I cannot get her attention by talking, she ignores me and keeps on screaming. there is nothing that I can do. I totally feel your pain, it's hard when you feel you cannot apply GD (I don't do anything really since I am opposed to spanking) sometimes we really HAVE to leave, sometimes I will let her stay when she starts screaming. but I can't do every single thing she asks for, I mean, I have another child and he need me too. I have other responsabilities too. It's so hard....

's

 

[tboroson]

When you know you're headed into a situation in which you know your child will butt heads with you, try heading it off by creating a distraction ahead of time. Don't even get to the "Mommy wants you to go out of the room" part - set him up with an exciting activity first, and then say "Ok, Mommy is going to go get dressed now." When you're leaving a store or playground or something, give him advance notice and rather than say "We're leaving," say "Ok, now we're going to go [do something else]." For instance, when we're leaving our local whole foods market, where there is a play area near the registers, it's sometimes hard to tear her away from the toys. I warn her "Talia, we need to say bye-bye to the toys in a minute. We're going home to see Daddy."

Of course, these don't *always* work. But, they work often enough to give it a try!! Good luck

 

[sunnmama]

Quote:

Originally Posted by loving-my-babies sometimes we really HAVE to leave, sometimes I will let her stay when she starts screaming. but I can't do every single thing she asks for, I mean, I have another child and he need me too. I have other responsabilities too. It's so hard....

I think it is totally normal for a 3 yo to sometimes have a tantrum when they have to leave before they are ready. But, IMO, it is confusing and counterproductive to sometimes let her stay when she starts screaming, and other times not. From a psychological standpoint, this is intermittent reinforcement of screaming--the most effective reinforcement pattern for continuing the behavior. I might try standing firm every time--yes, we need to leave (after giving her lots of warning that the time to leave is approaching), and deeply empathizing with her disappointment and anger. But then leave.

Of course, if she has a really good argument for staying, and is expressing that argument in a socially acceptable way (dd will sometimes tell me her pov between sobs), I believe it is fine to change your stance. I just would not change my mind in response to screaming.

 

[PM]

Come on! Nobody thought I was funny??

This forum is way too serious! Everyone is too tense!

 

[oceanbaby]

Quote:

Come on! Nobody thought I was funny??

Ha! Threatening to fart would guarantee that ds wouldn't leave the room - he thinks farts and burps are just hysterical.

 

[PM]

Yeah, I thought of that. Obviously, I don't have a boy!

 

[Piglet68]

ITA with freerangemom.

And i agree that you set yourself up for abattle when you ask a child to do something that you know you are going to make him do regardless of what his answer will be.

my goal right now is to avoid all power struggles. at 4 years of age, you are physically strong enough to remove him from teh room and lock the door, but what does that teach him? why ask him if you know you are goign to force the issue anyways? you won't be able to do that when he's 14.

i like the "let's work together approach" SO much. just as freerange said: tell him the problem and ask HIM for a solution. be prepared to compromise (as he will be expected to as well). that's how families work well together.

i just try to make a habit of not asking my DD something, if a "no" answer is not acceptable. otherwise, rather than ask her, I'll tell her "in five minutes we're going to go to bed". i am sure eventually she'll figure out to protest, in which case I think she'll be old enough and verbal enough to participate as described above.

 

[arcenciel]

ParisMaman - sorry I guess I'm just too British

I loved your original comment that I might just be being too stubborn! I know I am sometimes! But there are times when the wellbeing of my children depends on my getting 5 minutes alone.

Lindsaylou - I like your point about choices. I do often offer a choice, but it is usually one nice thing and one not so nice so not a real choice then. Thanks for that.

Sunmama - thats a good point about making him leaving the room instead of me leaving him. Not always the problem but part of it I'm sure.

FreeRangeMama - I like your point about stating what we both want and trying to find a solution for both. I don't think it will work with my 4 year old in these situations as he is way too stubborn and stuck in getting exactly what he wants, but it will definitely work with my 5 year old ds and probably at less stressful times with ds#2.

I'm trying to cut down on the number of words I use. Although he understands perfectly well in calm conversation, I think it does^'t help talking too much and explaining for ages.

Thanks for all the suggestions, I have some good stuff to try out.

 

[PM]

No problem. Like I said, it wouldn't work in this house.

And I know what you mean when you say you need 5 minutes. My dd is going through a clingly growth spurt at the moment.

 

[my2suns]

Good morning mamas! I have been battling with DS's this week. They are not making it very easy to GD and I have "lost it" a couple of times. Sometimes when you are in the minute it is soooo hard to pull out that gentleness. I was not raised with it (as many of us probably weren't) and I hear my P's coming out of MY mouth sometimes. Then afterward I cringe!!

My firstborn is laid back but then came my strong willed CJ! I know that when he is older I will be so thankful for that strong head of his but at 3 it is a different story. I try to respect his mind..give choices...redirect..but some days it seems like it just isn't working. Some days he will melt down over the fact that his milk is in the green cup, not the blue or the spoon is not the bunny spoon! I have had a Mont. teacher tell me that if he does not "slow down" he will be labeled ADHD. He is only 3!!!! But then I look at him and think he is really like other kids only more so (as Feingold describes it). We have identified a problem with Red #40 with him...

makes him wicked so we as a family make sure that none of that is present in our house.

Sorry, my fingers and heart just took over. Yesterday was a very hard day with him...I look at him an know he has the power inside that little body to bring so much joy but there are days......

Thanks for any suggestions and allowing me to vent a little...maybe I should have posted this on the SAHM vent thread, but the GD is way more important to me than the fact I am at home right now!!!

Mel