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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
?????
 

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I was wondering the same thing. I thought I read somewhere that the Ohio recount would start after Thanksgiving?<br><br>
I know that the Black Box Voting site says that people just want to run out the clock on this one, so I'm guessing it won't be for awhile - and certainly not soon enough to actually make a difference. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br>
But if anyone else had any information about this, I'd love to read it...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Is there a time limit to the recounting? For example, does it have to be done by Inauguration Day? Is it too late after President Bush is sworn in?
 

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Each state has its own "recount" rules.... given the position of Ohio's Secretary of State, as the Bush-Cheney re-election chair for Ohio, it is highly likely he will simply allow the clock to run out on Ohio's recount deadlines...<br><br>
I know it is still of vital importance for recounts to be done in Ohio, perhaps Florida, and New Hampshire. We need to hear the final vote counts in key swing states.<br><br>
I have heard from a legal standpoint, that if recounts are done before the electors go to DC the second week of December, and the recounts alter the results, it isn't too late to change the way the electors vote.<br><br>
I've also heard from some JDs (attorneys) that it isn't really ultimately too late until January when Congress re-convenes to accept the electoral votes that are cast in December. Of course the inauguration is the 20-something of January.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">The Ohio Democratic Party shares Sen. John Kerry’s insistence that every vote be counted.<br>
Here is where we stand in Ohio:<br>
► After the Unofficial Results reported Nov. 2 – George Bush leads John Kerry by 136,483 votes.<br><br><br>
► Provisional ballots are being counted. 155,000 provisional ballots have been cast and are being counted. County Boards of Elections began Saturday to verify the eligibility of those who cast a provisional vote. County Boards have until. Dec. 1, 2004 to certify their vote totals and report them to the Secretary of State.<br><br></td>
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from the <a href="http://www.ohiodems.org/index.php?display=ReleaseDetails&id=192686" target="_blank">Ohio DNC website</a><br><br>
I read that my Ohio absentee ballot will be counted as well. In the next three days. And duly reported.<br><br><br>
How comforting, considering the other bits I've read about the election. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">When will we hear the results of the recounts, or "audits?"</td>
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<br>
The results for Ohio will be posted on December 6th and then the recount will be officially in play.<br><br><br>
The ball of contention is not only in Ohio.,,,,,,,<br><br><a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x91921" target="_blank">http://www.democraticunderground.com...ress=203x91921</a><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Miami Herald article shows that Kerry may have won Florida!<br><br>
Here are the tallies for Union County:<br><br>
Bush original: 3396<br>
Bush hand count: 3393 (-3)<br>
Kerry original: 1251<br>
Kerry hand count: 1272 (+21)<br>
Net change: Kerry +24<br><br>
Here are the tallies for Lafayette County:<br><br>
Bush original: 2460<br>
Bush hand count: 2452 (-8)<br>
Kerry original: 845<br>
Kerry hand count: 848 (+3)<br>
Net change: Kerry +11<br><br>
It's a bit more complicated for the third county they looked at, Suwanee County, because they only report the totals for a hand count of "almost 60%" of the ballots.<br><br>
Bush original: 11153<br>
Kerry original: 4522<br>
Bush hand count: 6140<br>
Kerry hand count: 2984<br><br>
In the original count, 71.2% of the votes cast for Bush or Kerry (n=15675) went to Bush. In the hand count, this drops to 67.3%. That is a significant drop. Let's translate that into numbers. If you take the percentages from the hand count and extrapolate, here's what you get:<br><br>
Bush = 15675 x .673 = 10549 (loss of 604)<br>
Kerry = 15675 x .327 = 5126 (gain of 604)<br>
Net change: Kerry +1208<br><br>
A switch of 1208 votes in a county with less than 16K votes cast is obviously huge. Now maybe there's a very large percentage of Bush votes in that remaining 40% that they didn't count, but we can't know that because they didn't count them. Which begs the question...why did they stop counting in Suwannee County when their tabulation of 60% of the ballots deviated so much from the original total? And without actually counting those remaining ballots, how can they possibly report that nothing is amiss when the data they have so far suggests a possible problem?<br><br>
They conclude that there's "no flaw in Bush's state win." Sorry, but what I see is a possible gain of 1243 votes for Kerry from three small counties in which only 23627 ballots were cast. That represents about 0.3% of the ballots cast for Bush and Kerry statewide. If Kerry gained votes at the same rate statewide, he picks up nearly 400,000 votes and wins Florida.<br><br>
Thanks Miami Herald, you just revealed to us in your hand counts that there's a possibility that Kerry won Florida.<br></td>
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<br><br>
Then there is this......<br><br><br>
A must read...........<a href="http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1129-26.htm" target="_blank">http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1129-26.htm</a><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">How To Take Back A Stolen Election<br><br><br>
"Never again!" says the slogan in an email I received from an activist friend. "Never again will we allow a stolen election in the USA!"<br><br>
But how are we going to stop it?<br><br>
The major American political parties have an answer - it's already working for them in the Ukraine - but it's very much a sword that can cut two ways.<br><br>
Interestingly, it was first used in the US.<br><br>
On December 4, 2000, in time to change the outcome of the Electoral College vote, Greg Palast published an article in Salon.com, made into a BBC television documentary shortly thereafter, that laid out solid evidence of massive electoral fraud in Florida, perpetrated against the majority-Democratic-voting African American community by Katherine Harris and Jeb Bush. Without this fraud, Gore would have easily carried the state.<br><br>
Even more glaring, a consortium of news organizations found and reported on the front page of The New York Times (and other papers) on 12 September 2001, that in Florida "...a statewide recount -- could have produced enough votes to tilt the election his [Gore's] way, no matter what standard was chosen to judge voter intent." (The Times apparently chose to bury this fact - that Gore actually won the 2000 election - in the 15th paragraph and behind a misleading headline because the nation had been attacked on 9/11 the day before.)<br><br>
Not only was the election of 2000 stolen by the Bush brothers, but it was proven by the later statewide recount that - even after Jeb's knocking thousands of African Americans off the rolls - Gore still would have won Florida had all the votes been counted.<br></td>
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Info on Nader's recount in NH is starting to come in - the Nation has an <a href="http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml%3Fi=20041206&s=baker" target="_blank">article</a>.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">But so far, in the two precincts, or "wards," where official recounts were posted, the vote totals hardly changed at all. In the town of Litchfield, both Bush and Kerry gained three votes--precious little out of more than 5,000 ballots cast. In Manchester's Ward 7, with a similar number of voters, Bush's total remained the same, while Kerry picked up three.</td>
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But then later they say...<br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Nonetheless, when the counters return after Thanksgiving, they'll still have some technical problems to resolve. The hand count of a third precinct showed roughly 100 fewer presidential votes than the optical-scan machines had, and will likely have to be recounted yet again. And in a fourth one, a local Republican candidate being recounted was awarded 105 more votes than he had before. Was the problem Diebold or somebody in the counting room? The answer will soon be clear.</td>
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OH recount is being covered in this blog too:<br><a href="http://ohvotesuppression.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://ohvotesuppression.blogspot.com/</a><br><br>
Also here:<br><a href="http://www.recountohio.org/news/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.recountohio.org/news/index.html</a>
 

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<a href="http://www.votecobb.org/" target="_blank">http://www.votecobb.org/</a><br><br>
Let's not forget NM and Nevada!<br><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Recounts Filed in New Mexico and Nevada With your help, we are standing up for the right to vote, and the right for votes to be counted. David Cobb of the Green Party and Michael Badnarik of the Libertarian Party have filed for a recount of the presidential ballots cast in Ohio, New Mexico, and Nevada, and have filed a lawsuit in Ohio to make sure there is sufficient time to recount every ballot. The initial Ohio recount filing fees and expenses were paid with the help of thousands of small donations from all over the country. We appreciate your support of the recount, and of a more open and accountable vote-counting process.</td>
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">WHAT’S THE LATEST ON THE RECOUNT?<br>
On Monday, November 29, Green party Presidential candidate David Cobb filed official requests for a recount in New Mexico and Nevada. As he did in Ohio, Cobb filed the requests jointly with Libertarian candidate Michael Badnarik. "The Green Party's dedication to protecting the integrity of the election process has led me to file for a recount in both New Mexico and Nevada. We want to ensure that every vote is counted and verify the accuracy of the electronic voting machines, particularly those which produce no paper trail," said David Cobb.<br>
"It is absolutely critical that we verify the accuracy of electronic voting machines. Voting without independent checks and balances is a meaningless exercise. There is no reason why Americans should settle for second-best when it comes to protecting our democratic rights," said Cobb-LaMarche Media Director Blair Bobier.<br>
The New Mexico presidential election was marred by reports of voter suppression and problems with electronic voting machines. In Nevada, the lack of paper trails or receipts for electronic voting machines is the primary concern. In an unrelated legal challenge, an election contest case will be heard today in Reno, Nevada, demanding a recount. The suit also seeks to address allegations that people employed by Sproul & Associates, an Arizona-based firm hired by the Republican National Committee, tore up and discarded</td>
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(delurking)<br><br>
This link was posted above: <a href="http://ohvotesuppression.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://ohvotesuppression.blogspot.com/</a><br><br>
I was just reading over it and saw this:
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Auglaize Co:<br><br>
* According to elections officials, 573 provisional ballots were okayed out of 650 cast. The results are Bush +575, Kerry +171</td>
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How can Kerry have 171 and Bush have 575 when there were only 573 okayed? Am I misunderstanding or does that not add up? This is the same for several other counties, too.
 

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The comments on the entry contain the answer to this:<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">The net changes (+Bush +Kerry)reflect valid provisionals plus valid absentees in some counties, so net changes sometimes add up to more than the original number of provisionals.</td>
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