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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Help me understand why this bothers me. A friend on another board is advising another Mom how to use the program "LOve and Logic" to discipline her daughter re: tantrums. She advises that she tell her sweet girls get to watch the movie but you're not beign sweet so you can't. When you're a nice sweet girl, then yes you get to watch the movie.<br><br>
It feels like you're labeling your child. No, not really, the CHILD isn't bad, it's the behavior I know but it just feels uncomfortable to me.<br><br>
And, when the tantrum is done you show her a sweet face and let her know it's okay now to come to you?<br><br>
I'm not really familiar w/the class and it does sounds like it has good points. Anyone know about it?<br>
It sounds almost manipulative to me but then what else does one do when the child have a screaming fit but put them in their room?<br><br>
*sigh* My kids are sooooooooooooooooooo active but don't do this. They ahve other joys so I"m <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/headscratch.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="headscratch">.
 

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Ick. That creeps me out. "Sweet Girls?" WTF? Would she say the same thing to a boy?<br><br>
I'm really uncomfortable with training kids, and girls in particular, to be 'sweet', which to me means compliant. Basically she's telling the child to repress her emotions or she will be punished. And to act nice (sweet) even when you don't feel like it.<br><br>
I think there is a good article on mothering.com about tantrums.<br><br>
However... I don't see anything wrong with saying "When you calm down, we'll watch the movie."
 

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It's conditional love. That's why it bothers me.<br><br>
It's also misusing Love and Logic, as I understand it. Love and Logic says "I will show movies to girls who behave themselves/are sweet" (OK, I hate the term 'sweet' too!) There the focus is on what you, the parent will or will not do. It's not on the child. One of the principles of Love and Logic is that you can't control their behavior, but you can control YOURS. But I agree, it's manipulative. It's also bribery.<br><br>
I have taken a Love and Logic class, but wasn't too thrilled with it. It just felt too punitive to me. Some of the ideas are good, and the basic ideas are sound, but I really didn't like the use of timeout as an all purpose cure for misbehavior.<br><br>
As for what else to do with tantrums, read the article in <a href="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=588806" target="_blank">the sticky</a> at the top of the board!<br><br>
I do use timeouts sometimes. But it's always for times when my kids are OUT OF CONTROL physically. I do not use them for tantrums. Depending on the cause of the tantrum and how worked up my kids are, I either offer a sympathetic ear/shoulder to cry on or a matter of fact 'gosh that's hard' and move on. I don't believe kids SHOULD be isolated for a tantrum. They need help in learning to calm down, and I can do that. That doesn't mean they 'get' whatever it was they wanted if it's not appropriate (jelly beans 5 minutes before dinner precipitated a doozy of a meltdown last week), but I don't have to be unsympathetic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks you guys, I'm goign to cut/paste your replies to her via email. I know some folks really LOVE the program but it does sound pretty conditional to me. And, yeah, I remember an older teacher telling me that when her boys used to have temper explosions, she'd just sit next to them until it was over. She said that underneath the temper was fear and never to abandon your kids. That has always stuck w/me.<br><br>
I need to go check out that sticky!
 

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Holy cow, this doesn't even make sense to me. How is a child supposed to know what is "sweet" behaviour?<br><br>
I agree with a PP about telling a child when they calm down they can watch the movie. Maybe explaining something like, "if you're yelling, we can't hear it"<br><br>
As far as tantrums and how to handle them ITA with the Crying for connection sticky. I read it and got A LOT of insight and tools to deal (although fortunately we've not yet had too many to deal with). Even putting them in their room because they are having a tantrum sound punitivie to me.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Laggie</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7896258"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><br>
I'm really uncomfortable with training kids, and girls in particular, to be 'sweet', which to me means compliant. Basically she's telling the child to repress her emotions or she will be punished. And to act nice (sweet) even when you don't feel like it.<br>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/nod.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="nod"> shudder.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yeah, I think that bit nails it for me.<br><br>
Thanks so much <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/grouphug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="grouphug"><br><br>
eta: OMG awesome article on the sticky! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/jumpers.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="jumpers">:
 

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Once when i took my son to the dentist (and waited in the waiting room for his exam, for the first time), when I came in to get him the dentist said "B was a really good boy".<br><br>
It rubbed me the wrong way. It implies that if he had fidgeted he would have been a bad boy? Yuck.<br><br>
I MUCH prefer complimenting specific behavior instead of generalized statements of "good boy". I tell my dog he's good boy - because he doesn't understand the specifics.<br><br>
I've never read the Love and Logic approach, though I've heard of it. In the example the OP describes, is the movie a bribe for good behavior, or is the movie being turned off because the girl is goofing off and not watching it anyway? If it's bribery, I have a problem with that too (regardless of the phrasing).<br><br>
There is a time and a place for an occasional bribe, but I really hate it as a parenting tool. My kids asked me to use bribes (because they saw it as a chance to get stuff), until I reminded them that bribery and punishment go hand in hand. Since we don't do punishment, they quickly decided that the parenting techniques he had been using were just fine after all!
 

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This is disturbing on so many levels I stopped counting... <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Laggie</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7896258"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Ick. That creeps me out. "Sweet Girls?" WTF? Would she say the same thing to a boy?<br><br>
I'm really uncomfortable with training kids, and girls in particular, to be 'sweet', which to me means compliant. Basically she's telling the child to repress her emotions or she will be punished. And to act nice (sweet) even when you don't feel like it.<br><br>
I think there is a good article on mothering.com about tantrums.<br><br>
However... I don't see anything wrong with saying "When you calm down, we'll watch the movie."</div>
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i agree with every word you said <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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OI have not attended the workshop, and I have only read the love and logic for teens. But, I cannot imagine that they would teach THAT.<br><br>
I can't help but think that "nice sweet girl" thing is coming from her past. It's hard to break old habits. I have said things that I SWORE would never leave my mouth.<br><br>
"Because I said so"<br><br>
and<br><br>
"Good girl"<br><br>
So, lets hope they aren't teaching that in love and logic, because I love the love and logic for teens book.
 

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I heard a woman saying something similar to her young daughter, but it was "pretty girls don't..."<br><br>
How is her behavior linked to how she looks? And does this mean not-so-pretty girls can misbehave? Or is she saying that misbehaving makes her daughter ugly?<br><br>
Very disturbing. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:
 

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Oh wow, thats pretty eye opening. I've never really thought of things in that perspective. We do usually tell ds good job, etc. I don't want him to think our love is conditional. We do take his videos away when he is misbehaving (for like 3 minutes usually, rarely for longer)...but thats not too often. Videos are his thing, his attachment (Aspergers, fantasy boy). But gosh, the way you guys pointed at the wording is really making me thing! I'm going to have to talk to dh about this and be more careful about the way we word things.
 
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