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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
DS is 2.5, babbles a lot, says "uh-oh" and sort of says "cheese" and has a dozen or so ASL signs. He's in EI and it's slow-going, but he's improving with his communication--more eye contact, more interest in sharing experiences, etc.<br><br>
DH believes that he's just going catch up no problem and "you'll be missing these no-talking days!" I'm not sure I ever understood which path we were on, I've just putting one foot in front of the other and watching what happens. The other day I saw a video of a 4yo with the vocabularly/speech that I feel I could expect from DS, and then what it was him reciting the pledge of allegence as a 9 yo. The mom wanted to give hope to those who have been told their children will never speak properly.<br><br>
That video scared the crap out of me! I was actually impressed with the 4yo's vocabulary, and responders were making comments like "you can see how frustrated he is with the world since people don't understand him!!" when I didn't necessarily notice his frustration, but I didn't rewatch it. And then it came to the portion where he was reciting at 9 years old, and the boy had a lisp and she was showcasing this as how far he's come. I was concerned that it wasn't conversational talk, but something memorized.<br><br>
It taught me that I don't know what's going on with my son. I do believe the EI people have assured me that he will someday talk, but I'm unsure what to expect.<br><br>
Of course, it's impossible to tell, I realize that. But typically, what would one expect with a child of this delay? Or, where are your children?
 

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I am in a similar situation except that my son is 19 months. I have that same "what path are we on" feeling as you do though and it is hard. I also worked in EI years ago. Has your speech therapist considered apraxia? I know it can be difficult to diagnose. How is his receptive language? If it were me, I would consider a referral to someone else, even just another SLP for a second opinion as to if perhaps more is going on speech wise. Hugs...
 

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I don't think there is any possible way to know what to expect and I know how hard that is. Kids are so individual--even ones with the same underlying diagnosis. Does he chew and swallow well, blow bubbles, did he nurse ok, etc.--other types of mouth motor movements?<br><br>
One thing about the video. It sounds like that child's issues were in articulation and (I would think) even something like apraxia of speech. Unless your child's speech issues are things involving motor movement (apraxia for example) I wouldn't use the video you saw as a model of what to expect in any form. Even if you've been told apraxia of speech I think at this age that's really hard to determine for certain and, still, kids are going to vary so much in their progress and outcomes. When you talk about growth in eye contact and sharing experiences my mind goes in places outside of motor issues such as apraxia. But i may be reading too much into what you posted.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>AnalogWife</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/14717229"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Of course, it's impossible to tell, I realize that. But typically, what would one expect with a child of this delay? Or, where are your children?</div>
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I can tell you about my ds, for what it's worth. My ds didn't babble as an infant. At all. Virtually no noises (very very very little crying). He didn't coo/babble at all. We started teaching him signs around 12 months. At 17 months he started in EI for speech. By 2 1/2 he had 2 "words" he would say on occasion (rarely) and he still didn't babble. We would try to get him to make sounds (mooo, da, etc) and he wouldn't even attempt any. The only noise we got out of him consistently was a high pitched squeal. (yes, he had his hearing checked multiple times during these couple of year and they were fine). We were told by a neurologist shortly before his 3rd birthday to not expect him to talk, keep working on signs and other communication devices but to not expect him to ever carry on a conversation with us. Shortly after his 3rd birthday his language EXPLODED! He is still in speech therapy, at 6 years and almost 2 months BUT we just had another meeting and they're going to retest him because they think he's at or above age level for receptive and expressive language. WOO! (Social language is a whole other story, but he does have autism).<br><br>
So... all that to say THERE IS HOPE! Never give up hope! You just never know what these little ones will do <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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Is your child *just* speech delayed?<br><br>
My daughter is Deaf and at 2 1/2 she had about 10 words. She has had therapy once a week for the last 4 years (she now hears very well thanks to techology) and she is closing the gap. She has the vocab and skills of a 4 year old. We think that is fabuolus.<br><br>
What we did in the mean time was SIGN! We had to give our child a mode to communicate her needs. If you believe you are in for the long haul with a speech delay you MUST give your child another way to communicate. You have plenty of time, but research does show that if a child id without language for a long period of time (I believe about age 5) it will start to effect their cognitive and excutive functioning skills.<br><br>
So, where are you? I don't know. 2 1/2 is very young! But know that we are all here with you <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink">
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thank you. His bubble-blowing isn't great (he gets confused and blows raspberries and can't get off that track), but he seems to chew bagels fine, and his latch has always been good (and still going. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"> )<br>
No one has ever leaned towards Apraxia, but we have a new EI instructor coming in starting December because our current one has to be off for 3 months. Thank you for pointing out that the vid was probably apraxia-related, probably not what's going on with DS.<br><br>
We had a speech therapist come in once and she was WONDERFUL. Very intense, sort of "not my style" type of person normally, but she had DS <b><i>workin'</i></b> his signs and his communication, just in one hour and her influence has carried over for weeks. We were disappointed to learn that she was leaving CDS to go to elementary schools. Supposedly we have 5 more sessions with a ST, but I haven't heard when we're getting these, or if CDS even has a ST right now.<br><br>
Is my son *just* speech delayed. THAT is a HUGE question in my mind. He scored low-ish on his cognitive, but once I read the remarks on the test I saw that they had to take his initial puzzle attempts (which he failed) but that later in the eval that he was doing them correctly. Cognitively I think he's average, but then when he gets near other kids his age or I read stories, and I wonder if he's truly a little lower. To us, we who don't have other kids, DS stays at home...he seems right on track. But the question is, what do we know. Adaptive...mehhhh. He doesn't like the potty, he does brush his teeth, uses the fork only when he feels like it, helps with dressing and undressing.<br><br><i><b>If you believe you are in for the long haul with a speech delay</b></i> ...<br><br>
....that's the big question mark in my head. I get fuzzy around here when I read reports of progress, but that conversational language still lacks at say 6, etc. What does that mean? Is it possible to get a picture of what this looks like with peers. I can picture an adult asking something and the child says "IDK" but when it comes to other children...what does a "lack of social/conversation communication" mean? Just reading about it makes me <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">.<br><br>
One thing that worries me is that DS still won't to flowers/Big Bird/tree/nose/wheels/clouds/etc in the books we read. He likes seeing Elmo or Thomas, but if I ask him to point out the house/telephone/baby on the page I get nuthin'.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>AnalogWife</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/14721147"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">....that's the big question mark in my head. I get fuzzy around here when I read reports of progress, but that conversational language still lacks at say 6, etc. What does that mean? Is it possible to get a picture of what this looks like with peers. I can picture an adult asking something and the child says "IDK" but when it comes to other children...what does a "lack of social/conversation communication" mean? Just reading about it makes me <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">.</div>
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I only have a minute, I'm running to pack my car and leave for the weekend, but wanted to stop back in real quick. For us, it means that my son can say all the words he should for his age. If you point to something he can tell you the word for it. He just turned 6 years old (in Kindergarten) and is reading at about a 3rd grade level. Most everything he says is recognizable.<br><br>
But he cannot carry on a conversation with his peers in the same way that typical children can. If a child were to ask my ds something (say.... "what do you want to play at recess?") my ds would not usually answer the question. He probably would talk to the other child, but it might be about something totally random and not at all what the child asked. If another child tries to have a conversation with ds, he probably wouldn't *get* it and start talking about random things that HE has an interest in. He will also talk and talk and talk but not really care if anyone else is listening. My ds will sometimes ask questions but not really care if anyone even answers.<br><br>
And I also agree with sign language and also with PECS. We used both of those with ds with great success.
 

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Your son sounds a lot like my youngest at that age.<br><br>
First, unfortunately, *I think* it is nearly impossible to predict what a 2.5 year old speech-delayed child will be like at age 4 or at age 9. Every kid is different, there are many reasons for speech delays, etc.<br><br>
I can tell you my oldest son was barely talking at 2.5 (he had a few words and he did communicate in other ways) but at 3 just began talking with no interventions and no further problems. He has mild ADHD but for all intents and purposes, he is NT...plenty of friends, plays sports, does well in school, the whole shebang. He has even "outgrown" many of his ADHD symptoms. He was just a late talker, probably related to ADHD. He is 11. There was a time when I was really concerned, but he is fine.<br><br>
I have a 6 year old who was/is also speech delayed. The reason his problems were more alarming is that he did not make a lot of attempts to communicate in other ways other than screaming, sometimes pointing, but not much else. Also, his receptive language was also delayed, unlike my older son who UNDERSTOOD everything. My youngest would just look at me and had no idea... couldn't point to pictures or follow simple commands.<br><br>
He began EI speech therapy at 18 months and honestly made very little progress early on. He started ECSE at 2.5 and here is where there was a lot of improvement. He began talking sometime after 3 and has continued to improve since then. His receptive speech is pretty much average now. His expressive is still somewhat delayed, but not alarmingly so. You can have a conversation with him but sometimes he says things that don't really make sense or that are off topic. Sometimes he just says silly things b/c the conversation is just "too hard" for him. This is part of social language that you asked about. He is not great at the natural back and forth of conversation. He is somewhat stilted. Part of MY son's problem is that his processing speed is extremely slow despite having a normal IQ - so it takes him a long time to process what someone has said and then formulate his response. Adults can compensate but other 6 year olds not so much. Some kids also have trouble with body language and facial expression as well as tone of voice, etc which can also cause problems with social language since it can be hard to read intent if you can't understand those parts. We have practiced saying the same sentence to my son in 3 different tones of voice (angry, happy, sad) to demonstrate how the same words (like "We are leaving tomorrow") can mean 3 different things depending on tone of voice and body language. Fortunately,. my son does not seem to have a problem with this part of it, but many, many kids do.<br><br>
So...your son may end up being fine as your husband thinks. HOwever, it certainly doesn't hurt to continue with EI. Will he be attending ECSE? I was NOT happy about my son going - he was only 2.5 when he started and he COULDN"T TALK. I felt that he was really vulnerable and just the stigma of "special ed" upset me. Four years later I am SO grateful he had that program. It really helped him and prepared him for school. I had a gut feeling with my youngest that something wasn't right and he wouldn't just "outgrow" it. His interactions were not of the same quality of my oldest. (Plus I have a middle son who had no speech delay to compare with). Today...is he "normal"? No. He is a little "off". He doesn't have many friends. However, he plays really well with some kids, he is doing well in a mainstream kindergarten class, he has a great little personality (a charmer), and he is generally pretty happy. I still worry about him A LOT. I see all the things my 11 year old is dealing with in middle school and I dread it for him - socially, i don't know how he will ever deal with it. But...one day at a time.<br><br>
Hang in there.
 

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A child without an underlying autism spectrum diagnosis will not typically have issues with social/conversational communication. My child never had a serious speech delay but he is on the spectrum and his ability to hold conversation/use language properly socially was simply not present at all for a long time. A child with a speech delay but without a spectrum diagnosis will be able to handle conversation. My non-spectrum kid was good with back and forth communication (nonverbal) and other back and forth/give and take things before he was verbal.<br><br><a href="http://www.autismspeaks.org/video/glossary.php" target="_blank">http://www.autismspeaks.org/video/glossary.php</a> If you register (easy/quick/free/I've gotten no emails from them as a result either) you can look at videos of typical kids and spectrum kids at various ages. Under the communication section, conversation you can see the differences between typical kids conversation skills at these ages and how spectrum kids just aren't there.<br><br>
My point is that if there is only a speech delay going on you will not see struggles in that area. If the speech delay is a result of a spectrum situation you are likely to see a struggle on some level in this area. That would be true of spectrum kids not delayed in speech as well. If the speech delay is apraxia like (I sort of doubt it based on what you've written) you won't see the social stuff (unless there is another issue too, like spectrum stuff) but you will see speech articulation struggles. Kids with cognitive stuff going on (not able to accurately determine this at his age, especially without much speech, so don't worry about the EI scores) may well struggle in various areas but I wouldn't think basic conversation would be one of them unless the cognitive issue is severe. I base that thought purely on the fact that in all my years of teaching I never had a kid in my class with cognitive issues that couldn't carry on a conversation with myself or peers. The only struggles I saw in that area of kids in my class were those with autism spectrum or Klinefelter's syndrome (which I believe has spectrum stuff associated with) diagnosis.<br><br>
If his is purely an expressive delay with no underlying other issues you aren't likely to see much of anything left when he catches up.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>AnalogWife</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/14717229"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'm not sure I ever understood which path we were on, I've just putting one foot in front of the other and watching what happens.</div>
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My DD is 13 years old and I still feel kinda the same way. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment"><br><br>
At 2.5 my DD didn't really speak (very few words, none were understandable to any one but me, and she didn't really try to talk). At four she was really learning to talk. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"> There was a really, really big difference between 2.5 and 4.<br><br>
At 13 she is totally mainstreamed and makes pretty good grades, but is very quiet and has problems with peer relationships. At every stage of life she has been quiet. She was a quiet baby, a quiet toddler, and she is a quiet teenager. She *can* talk when she really wants to, but doesn't really seem to like to.<br><br>
She has lots of strengths and there are many, many things she is good at. I think she has good prospects in life even though she is quirky.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">But typically, what would one expect with a child of this delay?</td>
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I don't think there is a *typical,* but even though my DD is atypical, she's still a great kid having a good life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thank you, mamas.<br><br>
I have seen some of those Autism Speaks vids and I get very concerned when I see some of DS's behavior in them...mostly the lack of eye contact, the lack of genuine communication between the toddler and others. There was a 14 month old at the portrait studio last week and this little guy made so many attempts to connect with me through eye-contact, it made me sad because I knew that my DS didn't do that. With the EI it's getting better.<br><br>
But it's still rough. I read about how some people potty-learn their kids (not here, other sites/books/videos) and there's a lot of negotiating, the receptive language seems really advanced compared to DS. I've been working on choices with DS for months, and he's made maybe one bonafide choice in all this time. Just stuff like that is lacking.<br><br>
We do plan on him getting into the ECSE class when he turns 3. Part of me is excited, I love the thought of him getting to be with other kids...but the other part of me is EXTREMELY apprehensive. I haven't done too-too much investigating about it (mainly because the questions I ask the Case Worker remain unanswered. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked"> How hard is it to tell me WHERE these classes might be???) but I don't know how ready either of us will be for him to go to a school without me. Is it possible for a parent to stay? At least for a little while? Because I was getting the impression that it's not. Also, I was thinking that "catching up" would be best around kids who are good speakers. A class of delayed 3 year olds? Part of that sounds a little ineffective. But again, I'm totally in the dark about the classes because the one meeting we've had about it so far was completely vague and left me with more questions.<br><br>
Thanks again for your responses. I have had a few bad days lately where I just don't know where we fit in. I've been going through a thousand stages in this journey, I look for a community of other ma's who are in the same boat. And it gets overwhelming when you don't know WHAT boat you're on. The Wait And See suspension boat is so.....
 

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Try not to get concerned per se because if he's on the spectrum he is. Knowing that helps you help him and gives you a boat though maybe not the boat people would like. If he's on the spectrum my personal thought is you focus on that and not so much or certainly not exclusively the speech delay. Spectrum kids are missing or spotty with non-verbal and other preverbal communication stuff (like referencing their communication partner). When you've got speech but not the preverbals it's harder to go back and get those missing things that are a huge part of communication. That's why kids catch up in speech but still can't maintain a conversation--all the stuff that comes before speech is still weak and hasn't been addressed.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>AnalogWife</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/14729940"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Thanks again for your responses. I have had a few bad days lately where I just don't know where we fit in. I've been going through a thousand stages in this journey, I look for a community of other ma's who are in the same boat. And it gets overwhelming when you don't know WHAT boat you're on. The Wait And See suspension boat is so.....</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/hug2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Hug2"> I'm in your boat... The Wait and See Boat is definitely the hardest boat to be in. It leaves me feeling paralyzed. I think taking it a day at a time has been helpful to me at least.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>sbgrace</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/14730472"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">That's why kids catch up in speech but still can't maintain a conversation--all the stuff that comes before speech is still weak and hasn't been addressed.</div>
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Ah haaaaaaaa.....<br><br>
Thank you for this lightbulb moment. The EI folks are always advising me we need to work no these basic elemental communication skills, but I never got a clear what/why/what?, so thank you for this input, it makes complete sense.<br><br><br>
One day at a time, for sure!
 

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To address your concerns about ECSE (and I had many):<br><br>
My son went to ECSE 3 days a week and a "regular" preschool class 2 days a week. The ECSE team recommended this for him so he would spend some of his time with typical peers. At 3 he started the regular preschool. I think the ECSE helped him a lot more. They are used to working with these kids and knew how to help him. He did "OK" in regular preschool but did not participate much and seemed really uninvolved and unengaged. Also, (and I don't know if your situation will be the same) the classes were separated by severity of disability. My son was in a high functioning class (he wasn't even in the autism class) so there were kids in there who were way ahead of him verbally but may have had some other delays/diabilities. Some were on the spectrum, but not all. They didn't all have speech delays.<br><br>
I was very nervous about him separating from me but I was encouraged to let him go on his own on the bus (which scared the crap out of me) and he really did fine. Within a couple weeks he was ordering his own lunch in the cafeteria, carrying his own tray and participating fully in the preschool day. They didn't let him get away with not being engaged or not doing what he was capable of. (At the regular preschool, they compensated for him a lot.) The ECSE class pushed him and I believe that's why he made progress. His first phrase was "circle time today". He loved school.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>kme</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/14731643"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">To address your concerns about ECSE (and I had many):<br><br>
My son went to ECSE 3 days a week and a "regular" preschool class 2 days a week. The ECSE team recommended this for him so he would spend some of his time with typical peers. At 3 he started the regular preschool. I think the ECSE helped him a lot more. They are used to working with these kids and knew how to help him. He did "OK" in regular preschool but did not participate much and seemed really uninvolved and unengaged. Also, (and I don't know if your situation will be the same) the classes were separated by severity of disability. My son was in a high functioning class (he wasn't even in the autism class) so there were kids in there who were way ahead of him verbally but may have had some other delays/diabilities. Some were on the spectrum, but not all. They didn't all have speech delays.<br><br>
I was very nervous about him separating from me but I was encouraged to let him go on his own on the bus (which scared the crap out of me) and he really did fine. Within a couple weeks he was ordering his own lunch in the cafeteria, carrying his own tray and participating fully in the preschool day. They didn't let him get away with not being engaged or not doing what he was capable of. (At the regular preschool, they compensated for him a lot.) The ECSE class pushed him and I believe that's why he made progress. His first phrase was "circle time today". He loved school.</div>
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See. That's why I come here, I get WAY better, clearer information and my questions and concerns not only get answered but other people KNOW where I am and what I might need or want to know. Thank you.
 
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