[SundayCrepes]

Tonight I made my son a sandwich (cut off the crust, spread two jellies just right,) and took it to him on a plate. He said, "Why'd you put it on a plate. I don't want a plate."<br><br>
Is that typical 4 year old or is he particularly rude?<br><br>
Everything is a battle with him. Whining is constant. I tell him, "I can't understand you when you whine," and tap my ear. His tone gets a bit less whiny. Sometimes it's even normal. But the lesson doesn't seem to stay tight.<br><br>
I try to be supportive. I will put on his shoes when he asks. I figure he has a toddler sister and probably can't understand why I do so much for her and not for him, so I help him. I'm just worried I'm raising a prima donna.<br><br>
He ended up having a tantrum tonight. When that was done, he wanted his sandwich. He was told he could go get it. He wanted me or my husband to get it for him. No, you can get it yourself. "But I don't want to put my feet on the floor. Will you carry me?" I had to hide a laugh on that one, but it does get frustrating that he fights us when we tell him he needs to do something for himself.<br><br>
I wish I had more examples of what he does, but I guess I'm just at the end of my day and don't have the reserves to think about it. Perhaps I can be more specific as the thread evolves.

 

[Smithie]

I've got a whiny almost-four-year-old. It sounds like you are doing the right stuff. Now just do do it all again, eleven million times <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue"><br><br>
The way I look at it is: if we are going to have multiple daily battles about manners/whining anyhow, I had better be drawing the line in the sand exactly where I want it in the long term. So, I don't cut crusts. I don't take requests for cup color. I don't allow dd to engage in extended whining tantrums within hearing of the rest of the household. Our net number of conflicts doesn't seem to decrease if I am more lenient on any given day - it's like she figures out where the line is, and then she whines against THAT. If I made her scrub the terrace and go to bed at 5 p.m., she'd probably start whining to scrub only HALF the terrace and go to bed at SIX p.m.<br><br>
And every time, EVERY time, that whining or rudeness starts, I correct it. So does DH. We are fanatical about it, because it is our job to raise children whose social habits enhance their happiness and success. If that means that we have seventeen conversations in a single day about what constitutes acceptable tone and content in human interaction, then so be it.<br><br>
It's crazymaking, for sure.

 

[Amila]

I think it is a phase! DD will be 4 in july and has had such an attitude lately! I told her I would not help her clean her disaster pit of a room, and she said this:<br><br>
"Its NOT fair! You don't understand! You don't love me! You are RUINING my life!"<br><br>
So yea, I think its normal, and hopefully temporary <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1">

 

[tifpaul]

I have one here too. It's impossible.<br><br>
My breakthrough this week is to respond with a single word: voice, when she needs to change her voice. I get less irritated than when I have to say: Please change your voice.<br><br>
17 times? You mean before breakfast, I hope!!

 

[sewcool]

I asked the same thing not long agoabout my 5 year old- so I think were in the normal boat. best of luck we all need it

 

[SundayCrepes]

Thanks for letting me join the club with all of you (lol.) I feel better (a little) knowing it's probably nothing out of the ordinary.<br><br>
I don't mind cutting off his crusts. I figure I'm role modeling consideration. If I didn't like crusts, I would like it if someone cut them off my bread. So, hopefully, when he's older he'll do something nice for someone else because I showed him how to do that.<br><br>
I guess one of the things I worry about is if from his perspective I'm inconsistent. Sometimes I don't mind getting him his clothes. (See above role modeling consideration.) Sometimes I'm busy and it would be easiest if he just got his own clothes. Sometimes he will, sometimes he throws a huge fit. And, we all know, a huge fit doesn't make my life any easier.<br><br>
So I worry that he wonders why sometimes I'll do something for him and sometimes I won't. I am not his maid. I just sometimes do nice things for him. I don't want to stop being nice. That's not how I want to be and that's not how I want him to grow up. I just wish it wasn't such a huge friggin' issue when I just need him to do it himself.

 

[angelandmisha]

This may be a silly question, but have you explained to him what you just wrote about modeling consideration? You probably have, but if you haven't, maybe talking to him about how sometimes you'll be able to do nice things for him and sometimes you won't would help him begin to understand. Also maybe giving him a heads up when you're not going to be able to do things for him- saying something about how you're going to be busy, or tired or whatever and is there anything you need before then, otherwise you're going to need to do for yourself. Then he would be aware ahead of time that you're not available.<br>
Maybe he just needs extra babying right now.

 

[SundayCrepes]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>angelandmisha</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15194250"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">This may be a silly question, but have you explained to him what you just wrote about modeling consideration? You probably have, but if you haven't, maybe talking to him about how sometimes you'll be able to do nice things for him and sometimes you won't would help him begin to understand. Also maybe giving him a heads up when you're not going to be able to do things for him- saying something about how you're going to be busy, or tired or whatever and is there anything you need before then, otherwise you're going to need to do for yourself. Then he would be aware ahead of time that you're not available.<br>
Maybe he just needs extra babying right now.</div>
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Hmmm, maybe I haven't told him that. It's a good idea.<br><br>
Thanks

 

[Juvysen]

<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lurk.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lurk"><br><br>
I've been struggling with my 4 year old's whining and rudeness lately, too.<br><br>
Sometimes playful parenting techniques help...

 

[D_McG]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Smithie</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15193962"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><br>
And every time, EVERY time, that whining or rudeness starts, I correct it. So does DH. We are fanatical about it, because <b>it is our job to raise children whose social habits enhance their happiness and success</b>. If that means that we have seventeen conversations in a single day about what constitutes acceptable tone and content in human interaction, then so be it.<br><br>
It's crazymaking, for sure.</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that"><br><br>
Nothing grates on me more than a rude child. I will not let DS be that way.<br><br>
He never gets what he wants from being rude. Each and every rude statement is corrected and he has to rephrase it nicely. If he's whining too much then off to his bedroom he goes until he's ready to interact with us in a normal voice (this rarely happens).

 

[One_Girl]

It sounds rude, but not more rude sounding than a lot of kids this age. When my dd says something to abrupt I tell her the way to phrase her comment or request more politely. I don't mind doing things for my dd because I also expect her to do things for me. I do mind being spoken to as though I am the servant to a snobby rich person and I remind dd of that if she starts demanding, whining, and complaining to get me to do something.

 

[hakeber]

I think we have the same kid!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
Mine will be five next week.<br><br>
We give him a few modeling reminders and then that's it!<br><br>
And I let him choose: High protein snack, nap, (because it is a HUGE sign for me...if he is whiny and complaining and being a general beast 9 times out of ten he is hungry, or over tired.) or you are being thrown outside to go play in the park. (we lived in a secure condo and our yard opens up on to a gated playground.)<br><br>
He usually chooses a snack or the park but every now and then he chooss to lay down for a bit.<br><br>
I used to hate it as a kid when I was fussy and whiny and my mom would put me down for a nap. I remember clearly thinking, I am not tired, I'm just annoyed with everything! But now that I am older I realize I WAS tired or maybe I was hungry, but the reason I was in such a bad mood and was being so beastly was because my BODY was missing something, food, rest, play? Something!<br><br>
I think it's hard for me as a grown up to realize that I am grouchy because I forgot to eat or because I didn't get enough sleep, so I hardly expect ds to know. The kicker is if we are BOTH hungry or tired or whatever and we are BOTH grouchy it can be hard to remember that it's probably a phisiological thing, not a personal attack of rudeness.<br><br>
So now we are focusing on A) trying to identify the cues sooner B) making DS more aware of those needs, too and C) communication skills for when we are grouchy that don't hurt my ears!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue"><br><br>
I think we have a long road ahead of us, but in between the grouchiness are real moment of empathetic, sweetness of totally awesome behavior, so I'm hopeful.

 

[hakeber]

Also, as far as clothes go...he has only just started to be able to get his clothes on for himself recently, so I still lay his clothes out in the morning, but then he gets his play clothes out after school. I also dress him most mornings because he IS tired and not feeling much like going to school, and I can't really blame him because I think he's just a slow waker upper like his dad. I used to get really annoyed because I am a hop-outta-bed and start the day with a smile sort of person, but then I realized it was his constitution.<br><br>
He's just not fully human for the first thirty -forty minutes of the day.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue">

 

[SundayCrepes]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>hakeber</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15195129"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">He's just not fully human for the first thirty -forty minutes of the day.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue"></div>
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Yup. That's my kid. It is hard because his sister has always been a sunshine kittycat from the moment she wakes up. It's hard to not compare and wish they were both that way.<br><br>
He can dress himself, he just likes my help. Again, fine. He's got a little sister who gets that kind of attention, so why not him?

 

[hakeber]

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>SundayCrepes</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15195357"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Yup. That's my kid. It is hard because his sister has always been a sunshine kittycat from the moment she wakes up. It's hard to not compare and wish they were both that way.<br><br>
He can dress himself, he just likes my help. Again, fine. He's got a little sister who gets that kind of attention, so why not him?</div>
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Have you thought of maybe a reward chart for dressing himself? Now that you know he can. If he gets a star every day maybe on Sunday he could choose a video to watch or something?

 

[Thalia the Muse]

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">He can dress himself, he just likes my help. Again, fine. He's got a little sister who gets that kind of attention, so why not him?</td>
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Because he did get that kind of help when he was little like her, but now he's big and capable and can do all kinds of cool things she isn't able to?<br><br>
Maybe he could get some kind of attention/interaction that isn't based on you waiting on him or acting as his servant, but that is still rewarding for him. Being your helper in the kitchen, or other cool big-kid stuff. My daughter really liked it when we made up stories together at that age, and it left my hands free!

 

[hakeber]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Thalia the Muse</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15195454"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Because he did get that kind of help when he was little like her, but now he's big and capable and can do all kinds of cool things she isn't able to?<br><br>
Maybe he could get some kind of attention/interaction that isn't based on you waiting on him or acting as his servant, but that is still rewarding for him. Being your helper in the kitchen, or other cool big-kid stuff. My daughter really liked it when we made up stories together at that age, and it left my hands free!</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">

 

[madskye]

DD and I just started playing "the gratitude game" at night before bed. I tell her three things I'm grateful for from the day or life, and she tells me her three.<br><br>
I've been really surprized to hear that she is grateful for a lot of the little things I do for her! It made me feel really good. Little things, like, I put a song she asked for on my ipod, or I made pancakes that she asked for, for breakfast one day.<br><br>
Maybe that would help you both, too--you to feel appreciated, and him to be helped to express his appreciation!

 

[bright_eyes]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>SundayCrepes</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15194068"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Thanks for letting me join the club with all of you (lol.) I feel better (a little) knowing it's probably nothing out of the ordinary.<br><br>
I don't mind cutting off his crusts. I figure I'm role modeling consideration. If I didn't like crusts, I would like it if someone cut them off my bread. So, hopefully, when he's older he'll do something nice for someone else because I showed him how to do that.<br><br>
I guess one of the things I worry about is if from his perspective I'm inconsistent. Sometimes I don't mind getting him his clothes. (See above role modeling consideration.) Sometimes I'm busy and it would be easiest if he just got his own clothes. Sometimes he will, sometimes he throws a huge fit. And, we all know, a huge fit doesn't make my life any easier.<br><br>
So I worry that he wonders why sometimes I'll do something for him and sometimes I won't. I am not his maid. I just sometimes do nice things for him. I don't want to stop being nice. That's not how I want to be and that's not how I want him to grow up. <b>I just wish it wasn't such a huge friggin' issue when I just need him to do it himself</b>.</div>
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I could have written each word in this post! I couldn't even read the rest of the thread after reading this without responding to it!<br><br>
Ds is 3 1/2 and I worry about the exact same thing. Sometimes I'm willing to help him out and sometimes I just need him to do things on his own. One book I read said to never do things for them that they can do themselves so I've been trying to let him do a few more things on his own more often but sometimes it's nice when people do things for you and I do want to model doing nice things for him. I like when people do things for me even if I am perfectly capable of doing the thing on my own so why should it be any different with ds. But I worry about the inconsistency- and him not getting why I help sometimes and not at other times.<br><br><br>
Oh, and I have to add since I didn't specifically mention- ds is a big whiner, too!

 

[bright_eyes]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>hakeber</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15195103"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">And I let him choose: High protein snack, nap, (because it is a HUGE sign for me...if he is whiny and complaining and being a general beast 9 times out of ten he is hungry, or over tired.) or you are being thrown outside to go play in the park. (we lived in a secure condo and our yard opens up on to a gated playground.)</div>
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Can you give me some ideas of high protein snacks that you offer? I bet hunger is often ds's issue, too (or tiredness).