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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>bright_eyes</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15198325"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">One book I read said to never do things for them that they can do themselves</div>
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And a recent unschooling thread I read somewhere said that those people have the philosophy that if your child is asking for something that it means they need your attention and you are doing them a disservice if you don't meet their needs.<br><br>
It's really hard to know what is the best way.<br><br>
I became part of an instant family with a 6 year old and an 8 year old when I got married. Those kids were very injured by the divorce. I was really firm with them. I look back now and see there were times when that was appropriate and there were times when that was counterproductive.<br><br>
Now I have a 1 year old and a 4 year old that have not been injured by circumstances. I want to be less firm with them without going overboard in the opposite direction. Having already raised one brood I am less certain about my parenting than I was before.<br><br>
Every expert has a different point of view. I'm just not sure which is always best for our family.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>bright_eyes</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15198338"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Can you give me some ideas of high protein snacks that you offer? I bet hunger is often ds's issue, too (or tiredness).</div>
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Cheese cubes, Ham or turkey rolls, Yogurt, Peanuts, Peanut butter Banana sandwich, Falafel balls, edamame, some Chicken pieces...<br><br>
Stuff like that.
 

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ì`m glad to have found this thread. ds turmed 4 2 months ago and it`s like sonmeone turned on his whiny switch. omg. he was such an even-tempered guy that this new kid has thrown me for a loop. when i follow him around he says (rudely) :don`t follow me around.`when i don`t he says (rudely) ``stay with me mama, i`m scared!`` (not exactly the real thing he does, just an idea of d*mned if i do d*mned if i don`t). i`m ashamed to say i sometimes yell, sometimes playfully parent, sometimes ignore etc. i`m hoping this phase will pass soon!
 

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Just an idea-- since you said you have a younger dd, would your ds be interested in showing HER how can get dressed by himself? My dd is 4y4mo, and I similarly sometimes help, and sometimes just want her to do it herself, already. One thing I've noticed is that she LOVES to show a younger (like 2yo) friend how she does all these big kid things by herself. So I often pretend to be her little friend, and then she's happy to dress herself, make her own breakfast, etc. (of course, then I'm still watching and exclaiming, but I feel like it's at least making a small step in the right direction)
 

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Explain the needs of the situation to him, ask him to help you solve the problem, and you might get a lot more cooperation.<br><br>
Please give your kid some credit. He is capable of understanding that he and his sister have different needs, and that you will meet his needs to the best of your ability.<br><br>
When he asks for help with something you know he can do, let him that you know he is capable of doing X, and you will/won't help because of Y. See where it goes.
 

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I love this thread. Some days I could start the thread "My 4 Year Old ROCKS!" and other days (like today), he is just the rudest, meanest little guy. I actually made the kids come in and shower/get PJs on at 4:00pm today because they couldn't stop fighting and being rude to each other.<br><br>
Tonight, I'm simply adding a big ME TOO! to the thread.
 

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My dss is 4y5m and he definitely fits in this group. I always tell him when he whines that he needs to change his voice so I can understand, if it's something I already said no to, like no more tv (bigtime tv junkie, I've convinced DP to establish a rule of no more than 2 hours a day) I remind him that just because he whines and throws a tantrum doesnt mean he's going to get it. I tell him about all the things he CAN do like eat, play, we can read books, colors, go upstairs and play with his little sister and me, etc.<br><br>
He normally dresses himself and if he's having problems with something I help him out. Sometimes he asks for me to take his shoes off or put them on. I dont help him, I tell him that he's a big boy and he can do that by himself. I think it's ok to do things for him that he can do for himself, just like I do for DP, but I wouldnt ask DP to take my shoes or put my shoes on, so I dont see why I would do that for dss.<br><br>
The whininess is easier to control, but the rudeness gets on my nerves. Im helping him clean up his room, because I know DD made part of the mess and since she's only 10 months I feel like it's only fair for me to help him. He starts SCREAMING "I DONT WANT YOU TO HELP! I CAN DO IT! IT'S MY ROOM! I'LL DO IT!". kicks and this outburst of anger, I say ok, it is your room, I just thought it'd be nice to get some help. I leave and then he starts screaming and crying for me to help him. I explain to him that it was very rude of him to talk to me like that, so I no longer feel like helping him because I was trying to do a nice thing and he made me feel bad.<br><br>
If he wants whatever and he cant get it because of whatever reason, usually something he wants to eat and we ran out. He goes "Fine! Then Ill never have a pb&j! Goes upstairs and slams the door of his room".<br><br>
When we're all playing in there, he never wants to let DD touch any of his toys or him. I can understand that so I always tell him that it's ok if he wants to play by himself, that we'll go downstairs or whatever, he wants us to stay, then he throws something at her/pushes her. So I say well if you cant play nice, I think we better go, which ends up with him crying and screaming "I DONT WANT YOU TO GOOOO! AAAAAAH" Throws toy to the door of my room.<br><br>
His behaviour has been getting nicer now that the weather is nice and we have been spending a lot of time outside and walking and doing things. I know I get in a bad mood from being inside all day, I cant expect anything different from a kid. It's hard because he's only here half the week and well me and his mom are VERY different people, with VERY different parenting styles. She thinks tv all day is ok, she smacks him when he's bad (something I found out from dss), he has a very poor diet because she always gives him the same food (when you ask him what fruit or vegetables he likes his answer is mac and cheese from the box and chocolate lol), his diet is my biggest concern. I feel like the way he acts is entirely related to what he eats, when we've had him here for more than a week for whatever reason and he has eaten more wholesome meals (with a lot of effort) his behaviour changes a lot, he also always get sick. He had a very rough childhood, so i try my best to not be harsh, show him love and always explain why something is good, right and certain things arent or why I need him to do certain things on his own.<br><br>
I tell him what his job is (get dressed, put his plate on the sink and/or dishwasher, clean his room), I explain to him what daddy's job is and what my job is and I tell him that we need to teach DD to do things so she can have a job too. This usually helps, he likes having a job.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Originally Posted by bright_eyes View Post<br>
One book I read said to never do things for them that they can do themselves</td>
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I'm an early childhood education specialist and former teacher. I don't really agree with that. I'm a big fan of children being independent but sometimes it's ok to ask for, and receive, help. There's lots of things that I "can" do that I'd appreciate help with. It's no different for a child. Some mornings my DS is too tired to put his socks and shoes on and I help him. School starts early and we need to get out the door. He's fully capable of putting them on but he likes me to help sometimes. Just like I'm fully capable of changing the sheets on my bed. But sometimes, I like a little help.
 

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Four is whines-ville stage, in my experience. I will ask my kids to repeat what they just said, again, respectfully, like I talk to them. But the biggest, biggest, hugest factor in minimizing whinies is spending time with them. My current four year old is sandwiched between his six year old homeschooling brother, and his two year old little sister. He's also my most laid-back kid so he's easy to give the "just a minute" to. But the days I make a conscious effort to carve out time specifically for him, reading or game playing or whatever, there is a big deduction in his taste for whine. Haha!
 

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that is exactly what my dd sounds like too!!!<br><br>
The hard part, for me, is I get REALLY frustrated repeating myself. Like, how many times do you have to remind them to say "please" and "thank you". But you do! ! And all my friends do too, so I know it's not just my lo's.<br><br>
The latest here is my 5 year old would not drink out of a cup that I drank out of. I made her a glass of juice and took a little sleep, but she wouldn't drink it. I was all, "You sleep next to me every night and nursed me for 3 years, but can't drink out of your cup?" but I just dropped it. A lot of these things are individuating etc. I tried to give her more choices in her day and more attention and talk about gratitude etc.
 

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Can I join? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment"><br><br>
I think four is such a hard age sometimes. Crusts / no crusts, that cup /not that cup, only mummy can sing to me!!! etc etc etc.<br><br>
I am trying hard to find a balance between not making too much of an issue about every little thing (like letting it pass that he won't drink from a cup that I have had a small sip from, like the PP) and not letting myself be forced to run around fulfilling all kinds of unreasonable specific demands all day.
 

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uh oh - this is my 3 year old. nice to know she is advanced for her age!
 

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So what does this phase look like on the other side? What exactly are their little brains trying to accomplish? DH and I just had a really frustrating day with DD (she'll be 4 in 3 weeks). She had to see an eye doctor for an issue with her eye. She's been to 3 doctors this week. The first 2 she was amazingly cooperative and wonderful. Today, though, the one that really mattered, she refused to do anything. The doctor couldn't do a full exam. DH was beside himself with frustration, feeling like if we can't make her cooperate with the doctor, for example, we are doing something wrong and raising a spoiled only child. The whole ride home was a whine-fest. The whole time we were in a store this afternoon she would throw a fit if DH pushed the cart instead of me. ("I HATE when boys push the cart!") She was trying to be friendly in another store when she would go up to strangers and touch their leg, but DH had to carry her out of the store crying when she wouldn't stop. (It didn't help that the people were giggling at her and telling her how cute she was.)<br><br>
We try to not respond to a rude voice or words with anything other than reminding her how she should be talking, but it doesn't seem to stop it. It just makes it take longer for her to communicate because we have to tell her all the time to say that again in a nice voice. I'm a little comforted that this kind of whiny rudeness is apparently typical for th age, but how do we help them through it? Smithie said:<br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">And every time, EVERY time, that whining or rudeness starts, I correct it.</td>
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How? What do you say? I feel like a broken record. We feel like we've fallen into the cycle of giving her too many choices, all day long. They seem like harmless choices that contribute to general confidence or whatever, but she doesn't seem to get it that sometimes she needs to do things just because she is told to. I keep telling her "you don't get to decide _____." Or "I already said no, you don't need to ask again."<br><br>
Obviously this is right in the front of my consciousness--I can't shut up about it!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>ecoteat</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15331729"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">How? What do you say? I feel like a broken record. We feel like we've fallen into the cycle of giving her too many choices, all day long. They seem like harmless choices that contribute to general confidence or whatever, but she doesn't seem to get it that sometimes she needs to do things just because she is told to. I keep telling her "you don't get to decide _____." Or "I already said no, you don't need to ask again."<br><br>
Obviously this is right in the front of my consciousness--I can't shut up about it!</div>
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I would like to know too. I have been doing all these things for awhile now, when do they finally get it? I can't take much more of the rudeness. Especially at others, it's so embarrassing! And when you have said, (for instance) no, we are not having any candy right now, and they whine about it for forever (and ds will NOT let it go) what do you do? I'll admit, I have a pretty short fuse and not much patience but I am trying so hard. I just feel like there's only so much I can try before I blow up and start in with punishments/consequences. (especially because DP feels consequences will work since nothing else seems to be).
 

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Discussion Starter #35
I'm the op.<br><br>
Our life has gotten MUCH better. I'm not sure why. We still have whining, but not like we did and not so much rudeness. After I started this thread we realized he was sick, so that was making it worse. Plus, I was sick for a month so I had a short fuse.<br><br>
What may have been our solution was just being consistent with pointing to my ear and saying, "I don't understand whining," and waiting for him to use a reasonable voice. And sometimes that took a long time for him to "get it." Since I haven't been sick I don't get as upset (Plus I'm working really hard at not getting upset) and that seems to help.
 

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OP glad your child's behaviour has improved.<br><br>
I just wanted to say thanks to the poster who mentioned having the 4yo show the littler one how to do something. I needed a new 'trick' and this one worked like a charm today. Thanks!
 

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bumping for later. This is so my 4 yo, but its too late to read and comprehend tonight. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/innocent.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shy">
 

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When my 2yo daughter gets whiny, it's usually because of her being overwhelmed or tired. This is most apparent at bedtime when she is whining/screaming MIIIILK MIIILK MAAMAAA MIIILLLKKK. I ask her to use her big girl voice and manners. It usually takes her a couple tries to get it to a 'normal' voice, but she does, and she sees the difference. She knows what it means if I tell her that she is "whining" and she does her best to correct it, most of the time.<br><br>
I've also heard of somebody recording their child's whiny voice and normal voice and letting them hear the difference. I know when I was little, this probably would've helped me, because my mother hated whining, and would tell me not to do it, but I wasn't aware that I was.
 

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Smithie said it well.<br><br>
my 3 1/2 yo is in the throws of this and I worry about my consitency too. Good to know most of what you all are doing is what I am trying to do. Lots of Do-over please, didn't hear that you were whinning, etc.<br><br>
Add to this that he got a runny nose two days ago and angrily yells at me each time his nose stuff up or runs... all night long the first night.!
 

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My 4 year old is the same <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> I am really struggling with her at the moment. I have 2 other children...6 and 2 and I am 27 weeks pregnant. She is argumentative, steals my things and no matter what I seem to do she moans and whines <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> I`m at my wits end.I don`t want to have to shout at her. How can I stop this? x
 
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