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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)

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Yes I think William Thompson has some mental health concerns. I hope they have resolved, it was asserted at some point that it was a breakdown caused by the stress of doing something he knew was wrong but in reality it pre-dated this fake conspiracy by several years. I feel bad that he was exploited by Wakefield and Hooker, I wish their lack of scrupulous and exploiting a fragile man was addressed more.

I also find this conspiracy weird because even if what they are saying is true, it actually goes against the idea that vaccines cause autism. Even beating the data until it confessed could only find a spurious correlation between vaccine and autism between African American boys who were vaccinated late. So even if the conspiracy was true to hide that information, it just means that if you have an African American boy you should make sure to get them vaccinated on schedule to avoid the concern!

The garbage can gambit never made any sense at all, so I knew there wasn't anything there either. Sadly, this will always be the #CDCwhistleblower story for the anti-vaccine world and it will always be "More proof" that vaccines cause autism and the government is hiding all the information that proves it. The conspiracy will continue regardless of the clear evidence.


But then again some of the same sites pushing the #CDCwhisteblower story also promoted the idea that ebola was a hoax, that people weren't actually dying of ebola and it was all faked to push vaccines in the United States so.....I am not optimistic that any evidence will be enough to ever put this to bed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
This must be such a disappointment for those who were supporting this manufactroversy. I am not surprised at the unwillingness on the part of the proponents of the "whistleblower" conspiracy to read the documents that have been released - they will wait for their leaders to come up with misinterpretations of snippets of information that support their worldview.

Cognitive dissonance is uncomfortable.

I was a little taken aback by Dr. Thompson's behavior. It does not reflect a person of strong character, does it? The most charitable explanation I can allow is that he was dealing with some significant personal issues, thus making some poor decisions. For over a decade. :serious:
Yes, the documents show he was put on administrative leave for strange/bad behavior. Confronting people in parking lots, accusing people of harassment, etc. He did admit to suffering from paranoia and delusions. I hope he got some help but I'm not very hopeful that he did after this whole manufactroversy...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yes I think William Thompson has some mental health concerns. I hope they have resolved, it was asserted at some point that it was a breakdown caused by the stress of doing something he knew was wrong but in reality it pre-dated this fake conspiracy by several years. I feel bad that he was exploited by Wakefield and Hooker, I wish their lack of scrupulous and exploiting a fragile man was addressed more.

I also find this conspiracy weird because even if what they are saying is true, it actually goes against the idea that vaccines cause autism. Even beating the data until it confessed could only find a spurious correlation between vaccine and autism between African American boys who were vaccinated late. So even if the conspiracy was true to hide that information, it just means that if you have an African American boy you should make sure to get them vaccinated on schedule to avoid the concern!

The garbage can gambit never made any sense at all, so I knew there wasn't anything there either. Sadly, this will always be the #CDCwhistleblower story for the anti-vaccine world and it will always be "More proof" that vaccines cause autism and the government is hiding all the information that proves it. The conspiracy will continue regardless of the clear evidence.


But then again some of the same sites pushing the #CDCwhisteblower story also promoted the idea that ebola was a hoax, that people weren't actually dying of ebola and it was all faked to push vaccines in the United States so.....I am not optimistic that any evidence will be enough to ever put this to bed.
"I also find this conspiracy weird because even if what they are saying is true, it actually goes against the idea that vaccines cause autism. Even beating the data until it confessed could only find a spurious correlation between vaccine and autism between African American boys who were vaccinated late. So even if the conspiracy was true to hide that information, it just means that if you have an African American boy you should make sure to get them vaccinated on schedule to avoid the concern!"

I've brought this point up on the discussion forum multiple times. Some tried to argue the math and claim was wrong because only skeptic sites ever brought this issue up, but I think most ultimately conceded the point when I showed them the study and numbers. But of course only "skeptic" sites and blogs mentioned it. Non/anti vaccine sites would never accurately report that. They just continue to mislead by suggesting it's all African American boys or all African American boys under the age of three when in reality it is a tiny subset of boys not getting vaccinated per the CDC schedule even if the study was true.

I'll note a statement by Thompson from the leak that said, in part, "The fact that we found a strong statistically significant finding among black males does not mean that there was a true association between the MMR vaccine and autism-like features in this subpopulation."

As it was put in a comment by "brian": Regarding the “CDC Whistleblower” manufactroversy, AoA stalwart John Stone wrote “The whole thing has reached impasse, no doubt.” If even Stone thinks the “Whistleblower” issue is at an impasse, that’s a bad sign for anti-vaxxers...

I think dragging this thing out was their (Wakefield,Hooker, etc) strategy all along. I'd bet a lot of money they're pissed to no end about this leak.
 

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Hello

I have moved this to the General section, as the Vaccinating On Schedule section, is not the forum to use for debating.

Please see forum guidelines
http://www.mothering.com/articles/vaccination-forum-guidelines/

" Members who are not vaccinating or who are vaccinating on a selective or delayed schedule should not post here to debate or argue accuracy or opinion of things posted"

Thanks
 

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I'm glad to see this thread moved.

It was definitely a bash-fest, which isn't the purpose of the support forums.

(Reminder to self, do not use support forums for bashing pro-vaxers)
 

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I do hope that posts in the I'm not vaccinating forum that are designed to be debates just without the other side will also be moved here for others to comment on. Especially those that are critical of those of us who vaccinate. I understand that the vaccinating perspective is not welcome on the main forums, so I have left for those forums for the most part, I find that we are going to have our own support forum investigated and our threads moved so that they can be commented on to be a little unfair if it isn't going to be applied to the I'm not vaccinating posts as well.
 

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@Dakotacakes

IMO, where it crosses the line is not staying on the "support" part but attacking others, like making comments on "beliefs", "behaviors", "attitudes" of others and they can't reply! That's not support, that's an outright attack lobbed at one side knowing they can't post - in your face remarks that are not showing support any way one wants to spin them! AND when what is said has ZERO to do with the thread and is only directed at others, not staying on the topic!

Apparently the mods see things that were said and had a reason to move it.
I see a post was deleted, must be a reason!

& there is a report button!
 

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I'm glad to see this thread moved.

It was definitely a bash-fest, which isn't the purpose of the support forums.

(Reminder to self, do not use support forums for bashing pro-vaxers)
Couldn't the same be said of the "Meme" thread in INV? The vat majority of the memes shared bash those who choose to Vax in one way or anther.

I do find it ironic that a similar meme tread was started months ago in Sel/Del and it was almost immediately shut down. Doesn't seem quite fair does it?
 

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Couldn't the same be said of the "Meme" thread in INV? The vat majority of the memes shared bash those who choose to Vax in one way or anther.

I do find it ironic that a similar meme tread was started months ago in Sel/Del and it was almost immediately shut down. Doesn't seem quite fair does it?
Why are you directing this at members instead of CM or the mods?

Don't the mods answer your question or haven't you asked them?
 

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Hello

I have moved this to the General section, as the Vaccinating On Schedule section, is not the forum to use for debating.

Please see forum guidelines
http://www.mothering.com/articles/vaccination-forum-guidelines/

" Members who are not vaccinating or who are vaccinating on a selective or delayed schedule should not post here to debate or argue accuracy or opinion of things posted"

Thanks
I'm confused by the last paragraph you quoted - how is that applicable in this case since there were no members posting in the wrong forum. Mathemom's (new deleted comment) didn't mention any specific member here. I don't see how this is considered "debate".
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Couldn't the same be said of the "Meme" thread in INV? The vat majority of the memes shared bash those who choose to Vax in one way or anther.

I do find it ironic that a similar meme tread was started months ago in Sel/Del and it was almost immediately shut down. Doesn't seem quite fair does it?
Yes, I've reported that. Thanks for pointing it out. A meme thread just like it on VOS was deleted a while ago. I doubt it will get removed. Oh well....

On the upside, these responses will get more exposure here vs VOS :grin:
 

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I'm confused by the last paragraph you quoted - how is that applicable in this case since there were no members posting in the wrong forum. Mathemom's (new deleted comment) didn't mention any specific member here. I don't see how this is considered "debate".
Tea posted two Whistleblower threads - this one, which was originally on VOS, and another one, which was always on this forum

I copied part of Mathemoms quote onto the other whistleblower thread before she deleted it. http://www.mothering.com/forum/47-v...leblower-documents-released.html#post19210953

Here it is (hope it is ok to share, mods, if not let me know and I will take it down):

"This must be such a disappointment for those who were supporting this manufactroversy. I am not surprised at the unwillingness on the part of the proponents of the "whistleblower" conspiracy to read the documents that have been released - they will wait for their leaders to come up with misinterpretations of snippets of information that support their worldview. "

Only 3 vaccine critical people had posted on the whistleblower thread on the main forum when Mathemom made her comment on VOS: Serenbat, Turquesa and myself. Turquesa is off the table - her post merely stated it was a large homework assignment. I was quote vocal in the fact I would be unlikely to read the released documents. The comments are clearly about Serenbat and/or myself.

You don't always have to mention a person by name to know who they are talking about. If you want to talk about me you can do it to my face.
 

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"

I think dragging this thing out was their (Wakefield,Hooker, etc) strategy all along. I'd bet a lot of money they're pissed to no end about this leak.
I don't think vaccine critics are pissed about the documents. I personally don't think they are going to resolve anything (is it going to make what Thompson said disappear? Is it going to make the CDC's lack of response more palpable?). I would be surprised if this leak is talked about forever more. I think it is a non-event for most people. Time will tell.
 
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I don't think vaccine critics are pissed about the documents. I personally don't think they are going to resolve anything (is it going to make what Thompson said disappear? Is it going to make the CDC's lack of response more palpable?). I would be surprised if this leak is talked about forever more. I think it is a non-event for most people. Time will tell.
I was never super interested in this story and the endless shenanigans on both sides have gotten boring.

I'd rather talk about the funny stuff with HPV vaccines and the "background" rate of various undiagnosed conditions.
 

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@Dakotacakes

IMO, where it crosses the line is not staying on the "support" part but attacking others, like making comments on "beliefs", "behaviors", "attitudes" of others and they can't reply! That's not support, that's an outright attack lobbed at one side knowing they can't post - in your face remarks that are not showing support any way one wants to spin them! AND when what is said has ZERO to do with the thread and is only directed at others, not staying on the topic!

Apparently the mods see things that were said and had a reason to move it.
I see a post was deleted, must be a reason!

& there is a report button!
Yes there is a report button and I could go through the inv and report the posts that aren't strictly support and denigrate vaccinating parents, doctors, and bloggers who are pro vaccination( of which there are many) But I would rather just give vaccine critical parents there forum I just don't understand why vaccinating parents can't be given the same courtesy.
 

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I was never super interested in this story and the endless shenanigans on both sides have gotten boring.

I'd rather talk about the funny stuff with HPV vaccines and the "background" rate of various undiagnosed conditions.
I was never really interested in the Hooker part or even Wakefield's connection. I was and still am interested in Thompson and the CDC, though.

I would say the endless shenanigans are more than boring...they are tasteless. I wish the whole thing had come out in a different way, but I am glad it is out. I wish it were more out and that the CDC would do an actual inquiry or further studies.
 

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I was never really interested in the Hooker part or even Wakefield's connection. I was and still am interested in Thompson and the CDC, though.

I would say the endless shenanigans are more than boring...they are tasteless. I wish the whole thing had come out in a different way, but I am glad it is out. I wish it were more out and that the CDC would do an actual inquiry or further studies.
They are too busy doing marketing studies for Merck's HPV vaccines.
 
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Yes there is a report button and I could go through the inv and report the posts that aren't strictly support and denigrate vaccinating parents, doctors, and bloggers who are pro vaccination( of which there are many) But I would rather just give vaccine critical parents there forum I just don't understand why vaccinating parents can't be given the same courtesy.
Again you are showing how it's just about going after others and not sticking to the topic.
Don't like it-report it. Have a problem it was moved, deal with who did it, the mods, not members!
 
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