Mothering Forum banner

1 - 20 of 94 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,170 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So how did vaccines become the accepted way of preventing illness? anyone?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,170 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>alegna</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9859810"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">My guess is that it's cheaper than really improving living conditions.<br><br>
-Angela</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
True but probably not always the case. In the beginning of the vaccine era, they were experimental and not the default.....so how did we get there/here?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,195 Posts
The Big Lie philosophy. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/loveeyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Loveeyes">: Started with smallpox, the rest is history.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,558 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mykdsmomy</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9860108"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">True but probably not always the case. In the beginning of the vaccine era, they were experimental and not the default.....so how did we get there/here?</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Polio?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,821 Posts
I vote for many, many factors playing into the situation.<br><br>
One major one, still mostly unconscious, is the helplessness of doctors in relation to infectious disease. Allopathic medicine mostly could do diddly-squat. Good nursing was probably the best they could manage, and doctors have never been much interested in good nursing. Study Florence Nightingale and her horrendous struggle to improve the standard of nursing care.<br><br>
The major blow against infectious diseases was improved sanitation. The sewage engineers did more than medical science. This is something that doctors are sort of aware of but hiding from. They want to have pride in their history, but there isn't a lot there to be proud of.<br><br>
Another major blow against infectious disease came from the reformers who fought for higher wages and better living conditions. Again, medical doctors contributed very little to the pot.<br><br>
So vaccinations are a biggie for the medical profession, are believed in like a religion, because otherwise they would have to admit how helpless they were and still are, how little they understand the role of infectious disease in human life, and all the other big blanks that still exist in health care.<br><br>
The legal side of the equation is another big question. Anyone around who has studied the history of vaccine mandates? Or has someone written a history of the topic?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,101 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Jasmyn's Mum</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9860300"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Because Big Pharma and all the ones with their hands in Big Pharma's pockets made it so.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Bingo!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,821 Posts
<a href="http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/slr2714.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/slr2714.htm</a><br><br>
Found a history of the mandates. There was one that looked better, but I couldn't get to the article...I think this will do.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,766 Posts
Let me tell you the story of Poinsettias and Christmas:<br><br>
The Ecke family was starting a greenhouse in Encinetas California in the 1920's...the noticed this kinda scraggly looking plant growing wild in their backyard (it was December) the plants had red leaves. They decided to see what they could do with it as far as cultivation and grafting.<br><br>
They ended up with this plant that in the California desert got big and red right around Christmas...now what to do with it?<br><br>
They sent them off to the Jonny Carson show, Macy's, many other retailers and television shows to decorate sets and displays...within a few years, they became as connected with Christmas as evergreen trees...the reason?<br><br>
A product that was in need of a home and really good marketing...<br><br>
Sound familiar?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
13,072 Posts
Fear, intimidation, and greed.<br><br>
Do I need to elaborate or is this just a given?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,570 Posts
i think a lot of it has to do with the eradication of small pox. this mystifies me, as when I read the history of Richard Jenner and the development of the smallpox vaccine - I don't quite get it. It seems clear that the vax caused many people to become violently ill and the smallpox cases actually rose in England when the vaccine push started, but was dying out in other countries that didn't vax. I have yet to read an account of the 'eradication of smallpox' (pro and non vax) that didn't leave me with the impression that Mr. Jenner was insane.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,821 Posts
from the article:<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Although state school vaccination requirements are widely accepted as serving important public health purposes, school vaccination programs have also provoked popular resistance. Historical and modern examples of the perceived and potential harms of vaccination and strongly held religious beliefs have led to fervent objections. Parents and others have challenged school vaccination laws on legal, social and epidemiological grounds, including:<br><br>
Objections about the effectiveness or need for mass vaccinations,<br><br>
Fears of harmful effects arising from the introduction of foreign substances into the human body, including that vaccination actually transmits, rather than prevents, disease or weakens the immune system,<br><br>
Legal and constitutional objections, including religious objections under the First Amendment, and theories of equal protection, due process and privacy violations.</td>
</tr></table></div>
<a href="http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/slr2714.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/slr2714.htm</a><br><br>
The article makes perfectly clear that the possibility that childhood illnesses could ever have beneficial effects is completely off the radar. I think this is a major part of the disagreement between those who question vaxing and those who adore it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,821 Posts
Another major piece is the polio vaccination. The facts around that story are not all that encouraging, but most people believe the public face:<br><br>
polio was a scourge, striking totally at random, completely impossible to treat<br><br>
brave and dedicated scientists, working hard, discovered a wonderful solution...a vaccine<br><br>
the vaccine was widely distributed and polio disappeared and everything was wonderful<br><br>
It is a nice story.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,170 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Deborah</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9862515"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Another major piece is the polio vaccination. The facts around that story are not all that encouraging, but most people believe the public face:<br><br>
polio was a scourge, striking totally at random, completely impossible to treat<br><br>
brave and dedicated scientists, working hard, discovered a wonderful solution...a vaccine<br><br>
the vaccine was widely distributed and polio disappeared and everything was wonderful<br><br>
It is a nice story.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Soooo true! You could shoot a cannon through that story. I dont understand why there hasnt been a public outrage over that. Is it that people choose to believe that Jonas Salk actually did save our country from the horrors of polio?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,239 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Fyrestorm</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9862105"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Let me tell you the story of Poinsettias and Christmas:<br><br>
The Ecke family was starting a greenhouse in Encinetas C<b>alifornia in the 1920's.</b>..the noticed this kinda scraggly looking plant growing wild in their backyard (it was December) the plants had red leaves. They decided to see what they could do with it as far as cultivation and grafting.<br><br>
They ended up with this plant that in the California desert got big and red right around Christmas...now what to do with it?<br><br><b>They sent them off to the Jonny Carson show,</b> Macy's, many other retailers and television shows to decorate sets and displays...within a few years, they became as connected with Christmas as evergreen trees...the reason?<br><br>
A product that was in need of a home and really good marketing...<br><br>
Sound familiar?</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Johnny Carson wasn't even born until 1924. The Tonight Show didn't start until 1954. It took them 35 years to send it off?<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>13Sandals</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9862416"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">i think a lot of it has to do with the eradication of small pox. this mystifies me, as when I read the history of Richard Jenner and the development of the smallpox vaccine - I don't quite get it. It seems clear that the vax caused many people to become violently ill and the smallpox cases actually rose in England when the vaccine push started, but was dying out in other countries that didn't vax. I have yet to read an account of the 'eradication of smallpox' (pro and non vax) that didn't leave me with the impression that Mr. Jenner was insane.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Just and FYI. It was Edward Jenner.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,678 Posts
SO on topic... pointsetta according to Wikipedia.... nothing about Johnny Carson in there: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poinsettia" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poinsettia</a>
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,766 Posts
<a href="http://www.pauleckepoinsettias.com/html/comp_fset.html" target="_blank">The commercialization story</a><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;"><span style="font-family:Arial, Helvetica, Geneva, GillSans, Swiss, 'SunSans-Regular';">By this time, Paul Sr. had turned over most of the day to day operations of running the visiting grower customers. Paul Jr. recognized that greenhouse production alone would not sustain the company. His vision of what the poinsettia plant could be propelled his efforts, and he worked tirelessly to keep the plant before the public. Through media placements, television and print promotions, he made certain that poinsettias became a necessary part of the holiday experience. No holiday scene could be considered complete without at least one poinsettia in it. On a larger scale, the Ranch worked with television, such as The Tonight Show and the Bob Hope Christmas Specials, to make certain that poinsettias were always a part of the holiday sets. This constant effort paid off: poinsettias today are as much a part of the holiday season as evergreens and carols.</span></td>
</tr></table></div>
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,766 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>aniT</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9866972"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Johnny Carson wasn't even born until 1924. The Tonight Show didn't start until 1954. It took them 35 years to send it off?</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
They started the ranch in the 1920's Poinsettias did not become a Christmas favorite until MUCH later...see article below for the full story.<br><br>
BTW...this wasn't about the Poinsettias...it was about how something became the norm by strong marketing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,239 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Fyrestorm</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9867204"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">They started the ranch in the 1920's Poinsettias did not become a Christmas favorite until MUCH later...see article below for the full story.<br><br>
BTW...this wasn't about the Poinsettias...it was about how something became the norm by strong marketing.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
The article below what?<br><br>
My point was you said in the 20's they start cultivating them then sent them off to Carson. Your time lines didn't match.<br><br>
I personally believe it was the polio vaccine that made vaccines the norm. Many parents were scared to death that their child was going to get polio so they ran out and got the vaccine. My mom said she remembers her parents having a big discussion on if they should or should got get the vaccine for my mom and maybe one of the younger boys. (My mom was the youngest out of 8) This was in the 50's. They ate some sugar cube.<br><br>
Anyway.... when people saw that polio rates were dropping they naturally attributed it to the vaccine. So when vaccines for other illnesses came out everyone jumped on the bandwagon cause hey, vaccines stopped the spread of polio and small pox.. why not whopping cough.. or measles.. or mumps.
 
1 - 20 of 94 Posts
Top