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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The Boston Globe is generally a progressive newspaper but they irk me on a fairly regular basis. They posted this message board today in response to a new book that is out that suggests that women should not "throw their education away" and stay home with kids.

Are men subjected to these public debates??? Why are there not books/debates about men and working?? Sexism is obviously not obliterated from our culture.

http://boards.boston.com/n/pfx/forum...g=bc-your_life

Just had to vent
 

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I will never, ever understand that mentality. Its disgusting. How is it wasting your education if you stay at home?

I don't understand why men do not have this same issue, but it infuriates me. My husband works 60 hours a week, without a care, and everyone thinks he's amazing! Look at their home! What a provider! I work, and am considered selfish. materialistic. If I stayed home, I would be thought lazy and stupid and wasting my degree. We simply cannot win no matter what we do, yet men seemingly get by unscathed ( i know thats not really true, but no one questions my husbands work week, schedule, career choice). My husband also has a race car. Of course he does, he deserves it, right? he works! If I buy something its because I am materialistic.

*sigh*
 

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I try to avoid these topics IRL. No one wins and everyone feels bad. I am doing what is best for my family. Society, leave me the heck alone!
 

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My education was for me. It wasn't for a future employer or anyone else. I don't feel guilty for it. I use it every single day when I *think.*

My work experience did not benefit me at all. I discovered very early on in my job that it wasn't going to be a career for me. I stuck with it for 2.5 years because I didn't want to look like a job-hopper for when I looked elsewhere. As it turned out, I got pg and decided to SAH.

I don't really care what other people think I *should* do. In the end, it boils down to the fact that we should do what is best for our families. Women's lib was about having choices. If we go from chaining women to the house to chaining them to the workforce, how have we liberated ourselves?
 

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I live in the Boston area, too, and felt the same way when I saw the article.
Simply put, they are always looking to present a controversial topic in order to arouse public debate.

There are just too many people out there-- both men and women-- who have finally understood that sacrificing oneself for a job does not necessarily equal success in life. In fact, this can mean quite the opposite. You know the saying about how no one ever goes to his or her grave thinking that they should have spent more time at work?

I, for one, wasted my education for a job when I was in my twenties-- that's nine years of wasted time. I was the top math student at my university, and yet at my job entailed doing calculations for 9-10 hours a day and weekends, all under very tight deadlines in order to maximize a company's income. I earned a good salary, and this translated to a nicer car for me, as well as better shoes and great little outfits that I would wear on my precious days off to go on dates with shallow men.
:

And Linda Hirshman is wasting her education by writing mindless propaganda.
 

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My DH gets this all the time from his parents. They think he is wasting his college education. He was the only one of their three kids who went to college, and truthfully, I don't think he would have if they wouldn't have pushed so hard. He barely graduated college, and almost dropped out before the last quarter, but I convinced him to put in that last little bit of effort to finish. Now he is glad that he did.

While he was in school he received a lot of comment on his choice of major too- Latin Amercian Studies. The main theme was what kind of job would he get with that degree? A college education is wasted, in my opinion, if it is only about getting a job. Part of the importance of a college education is the experience of being in the university- in that learning environment with people who are asking interesting questions, and reading great works, and producing great works. People who leave college and take that experience with them have a much different way of thinking about things than people who have never had that experience. It's not that everyone takes away the same experience, or comes out with the same point of view. I also think that people can be "educated" without going to college (and some who do go to college don't come out any better for it). There is value in being "educated" without any of the economic value that is sometimes associated with it.

My mom is a great example of this. She got a two year nursing degree in the 60's and became an RN. She worked in her field for 30 years before return to get her college degree. Her degree had nothing to do with her job- she was perfectly qualified and capable of doing her job without it. However, she went back to school (we went to college at the same time!) and got her BSN, on the way she took classes in Russian Literature, algebra, chemistry, colonial history, women's studies, etc. She is a different person in many ways since she graduated- her world view has just shifted a bit or something.

Now I am rambling...
 

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i have a really big problem with the articles i've seen/read lately, bashing working mothers and breastfeeding (just this week) that are written by men. certainly everyone is entitled to their opinion. but something as deeply affecting as the mother/child bond, or of providing for your family, that is shouldered by a WOMAN, should not be dissected and analyzed and preached upon by a man. it's just wrong! what the hell do they know, will they ever know, of the subject first-hand?? IT DRIVES ME NUTS!!!!!

sorry to rant.
 

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...And even worse in this case, since the article that spawned this rant was written by a WOMAN!

She ought to be ashamed of herself.
:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetbaby3
I don't understand why men do not have this same issue, but it infuriates me. My husband works 60 hours a week, without a care, and everyone thinks he's amazing! Look at their home! What a provider! I work, and am considered selfish. materialistic. If I stayed home, I would be thought lazy and stupid and wasting my degree. We simply cannot win no matter what we do, yet men seemingly get by unscathed ( i know thats not really true, but no one questions my husbands work week, schedule, career choice). My husband also has a race car. Of course he does, he deserves it, right? he works! If I buy something its because I am materialistic.

*sigh*
: I hate double standards - that's why the message board in the paper infuriates me.
 

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Sweetbaby, I totally understand where you're coming from in regards to the 'wasting education' problem. Having graduated and gained my degree, I chose to continue working part-time for a another couple of years (not so great paying job), so that I could devote the majority of my time to caring for my DS and do some voluntary work to gain practical experience in other areas (which would allow me to eventually apply for better paying positions).

I have also recently separated from my DS Father, who took every opportunity to inform me that my Degree is worthless, that I should get a proper job, that my part-time job is worthless, that I'll never achieve anything blah blah blah. I work part-time so that I can be with my DS, however, according to ex-partner this equates with being 'lazy'. The logic is astounding.

And try explaining the problems of day-care and PAYING for it to him... impossible. Fortunately for him, he doesn't have to consider the issue of child care, I'm the primary carer, therefore it's a neccessity.

Unfortunately these are issues that many women and I'm sure, some men have to deal with on a day to day basis


Imogen
 

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I am totally calloused to the point of view pointed out by this article....seems to me it is "their" problem. I personally would care less what people are silly enough to believe. I put my kids first and that is that. That is why I would work to start with and if it does not fit, I am out of it.

I think this is a warped sense of reality. Education is not just for working purposes. Of course I do believe to get a good career education is a must. However, that is not necessarily true either. I feel education is for self improvement and gratification first...after that do with it what you want.

I also do not appreciate people judging for others what they should do.. They have a lot of nerve and need to get a life themselve....if they have time to concern themselves with this, they need the career.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by juliansmom
...And even worse in this case, since the article that spawned this rant was written by a WOMAN!

She ought to be ashamed of herself.
:
:

i'm sure they print a lot of these articles for the controversial nature - not because the author actually knows his/her *#% from his/her elbow.
 

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It makes sense to me only from the POV that the mother is the only one who can breastfeed and she is the one that gave birth to the baby and it should naturally attach to her, so that's why she is expected to be home with the baby all day. I can say that it makes sense from that POV for there to be an argument about this referring only to moms, not dads. I'm not saying it's right to just "expect" a mother to want to stay home and be a SAHM instead of going back to work, but I can see where they get the expectation from, as far as the natural sense of what a mother is.


I often wonder why there aren't more articles about dads that work all the time (workaholics) or go out to bars after work and do everything under the sun except go straight home to mom and kids. That happens alot!
 

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This stuff irks me to no end. How is it anyone's goshdarned business WHAT a woman does with her education after she's received it?

I recieve a fair amount of societal s&^t as a WOHM (yes, lots of it from these here boards) and often feel terribly guilty and upset about the fact that I leave DD in day care while I work (and not, may I add, to be able to afford our yearly Caribbean vacation and sports car but to keep a roof over our heads, put food on the table and provide medical insurance). The self-righteousness that many SAHMs (I said many! Certainly not all, or even most) exhibit around SAHM-ing bothers me too, but I've also come to see and empathize with the can't win position that society foists on them, as well.

To wit, if you get yourself a good education and decide to SAHM you are wasting your life. But if you *don't* bother getting an education, you are screwing up and taking horrible risks because what if your partner leaves/dies/divorces you/becomes disabled, etc - - what will you do then to support yourself? It truly is a damned if you do/damned if you don't scenario for SAHMs, and it is unfair and meanspirited to put people's choices under a microscope.

I believe we are all making what we believe are the best choices for our own families in our own unique circumstances. I'd like to see women supporting eachother in all of our varied choices and advocating for systemic changes that support those choices.
 

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I can't remember which book it was in, but I read recently that although motherhood hurt women's careers, fatherhood was good for men's. How screwy is that?

Mommywars don't serve anyone except the warmongers. Doesn't help the moms, doesn't help the kids, doesn't help society, just helps sell the papers.

What happened to the idea "diversity is beautiful"?
 
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