Why do you disagree with timeouts?

I haven't read the article, but I can tell you that we dropped traditional time outs years ago because they just didn't work for us. For instance, lets say the 3 and 4 year old were playing with each other and one spiked a toy onto the other's head. Pulling him away from the screaming and hurt kid and telling him he gets a 3 minute time out for throwing the toy at someone else and then enforcing a "sorry" afterwards just made everyone angry. It didn't calm the kid who got hurt and often it would be repeated time outs until the kid doing the throwing just broke down into a full blown tantrum while the other kid would be just as worked up from being hit in the head with toys and seeing the drama going on.

We started very slowly just getting in the middle of things, asking why they did what they did, and explaining things truthfully. Like, we would explain that we don't throw things at each other, because it hurts and isn't a very nice thing to do, and if it happened again, we would have to only play with soft toys or play apart because throwing hard toys at others is very dangerous. Sometimes we would find out that the toy was thrown due to frustration over wanting a different toy, or over how the other kid was playing, so we would point out that you don't HAVE to play with the other kid if you don't want, or would facilitate a sharing schedule (that they would work out themselves...such as 5 minutes per kid or three turns per kid). It took some time but it got to the root of the problems instead of just dishing out an arbitrary punishment that didn't help quell the hysterics in the long run.

Having said that I have had one or more kid come "take a time out" with me at the park or whatever where we would talk about what was going on if there was a problem. Last time it was because there were like 5 kids pushing to all go down the tube slide at the same time making for a super un-safe situation at the top of the 15 foot platform and quickly leading to shoving and yelling between all the kids. Just because I called it a "time out" doesn't mean he was sitting there on a bench alone and isolated...it was a time to calm down from the drama at the slide top and at the same time brainstorm some ideas for dealing with that situation more effectively.

I think there can be quite a variation in terms of what people define as a "time out." Some are more gentle than others (ie: there IS a difference b/w forcing a child to sit on a mat for some number of minutes, and resetting the clock of they budge or make a noise and expecting them to spend the time "reflecting" on their transgression and being forced to apologize at the end of the time out, or facing a return to the matt/chair/step VERSUS removing the child from the situation, coaching them to gain composure and leaving it up to them as to when they rejoin activity.)

That said, we don't do imposed time outs. I'll model "removing MYSELF from a tense/heated scenario" and calming down. And DD1 has picked up on that and will sometimes go off to her own quiet space ON HER OWN and return when she's ready. Otherwise, we do time-in together... either sitting down right where we are, or moving to a different room (ie: changing scenery to break the cycle of whatever we're trying to stop.) (caps meant for emphasis, not yelling )

Here's a good (IMO) article breaking down the pros/cons of time-outs: http://www.professionalparenting.ca/articles.html (scroll down for "123 Time Out Advantages and Disadvantages)

I love posts like this bc I always learn so much from you guys.

We do a lot of talking over here w/ds1 (7 yrs old) and ds2 (4.5 yrs old). I want them to understand and think things through.

It's really hard to break away from the notion that timeouts=consequence for bad behavior. (And tbh, the only time we have a problem here is when there is meanness involved. Everything else I can handle pretty easily, but I need a time out when they are being hateful to ea other bc it just sets me off).

I grew up in a yelling, punishment, spanking household and have decided to go the other way, but man is it hard to change the feelings that come up as a result of how I was parented. (Wait a minute, I think I just had an ah ha moment bc I never connected that before!).

I have always thought that time out just doesn't make logical sense bc my goal is to use every experience to teach something or help them work through something themselves. I guess it's just a matter of implementing a better solution, and ds2 is challenging me to really think this issue through.

Sorry for the ramble!

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This website looks like a very nice resource. Thank you for posting it!

I don't use timeouts as a "naughty-chair" punishment kind of thing-- you know, like "oh, you hit the dog, so you have to go sit in the chair and don't get up until I say," But I do use them successfully in situations where a child has gotten overstimulated and overwrought and is not in control any longer. For example, my DD1 gets like this sometimes, and I send her to sit in her top-bunk bed for awhile. She has a little shelf up there with her little special things and some books and little toys, so it's not like she's sitting and staring at an empty wall. Usually what'll happen is a situation will erupt and she's crying or not in control in some other way, and talking to her is turning out to be no use because she's too upset to talk or listen. I'll tell her to go up to her bed. She'll cry and rage for a little while, and then it'll go quiet. At that point, I go up to her, and she's usually quietly playing with her stuff and chatting to herself. So I leave her be, and after awhile longer she'll come out quietly and tell me she's ready to come out, and we'll sit a minute and talk about what happened and why and how it could have been prevented.

With little ones, like under about 4, I'll go with them. For example, if DS (3) is noisy and upset at the dinner table, I'll take him and we'll go sit on his bed together on his bed until he's calmed down, and then we'll talk very simply about what is expected in terms of dinner-table behavior, and then we go back to the table together. I might do that with an older child, too, but with DD1 so far she seems to do a lot better left alone. She really does just get overwhelmed, and she needs a quiet place to collect herself, but when she hasn't learned yet to go looking for that quiet place when she needs it. So I tell her, "You feel overwhelmed. When we feel that way, we need to go sit somewhere quiet for awhile. Let's go do that."

I think, as with a lot of issues re: parenting, the terms gentle discipline and time out can be pretty subjective. Unless everyone is using time out as was initially defined by behavioral psychologists, which I do not think is the case. The use of punishment is my concern, not the gentle, well intentioned parent trying to support their child through a difficult period. The term punishment is often misused too, however.

For us, remaining gentle and respectful are priorities for our family. Each family is different, each child is different. It sounds to me that what you have been terming time out has been a respectful experience for everyone involved!

I think it is very important to stress these values/goals and to support one another in attaining them rather than getting hung up on semantics. I know parents who do not use time out but who can be very rough and unkind (yelling, shaming, etc.) to their children, and parents who use time out regularly and are gentle, kind, and respectful.

I know that my son has some issues related to his prematurity that can make processing certain emotions difficult for him at times, and that he needs a calm adult to step in and help him find a quiet spot to calm down/reflect before he has a melt down. Sometimes he needs this help during the meltdown. We chose to use terms other than time out, but this may look like a time out to an unfamiliar judgmental eye. Allowing him to become out of control while surrounded by people only escalates his upset and dishonors his right to let his best self shine when around people he is not familiar with.

Sounds like you're doing great stuff for your DD, Mama, don't let the generalizations of well intentioned folks who do not truly know your situation get you down!

I don't think time-out teaches kids anything except that if their parents are annoyed with them or don't like what they are doing then they have to be isolated for an arbirtrary amount of time before they can either start doing that thing again or stop if their parents look to fed up. I think that telling a child what to do instead, redirecting to another activity, reminders (both gentle and stern), and helping children cope by making sure they are well rested and well fed are much more useful for children and parents because those things prevent behaviors we don't want as well as teaching children the reasons behind why they are expected to behave in certain ways. Punishing children with time out just teaches them to stop what they are doing when their parents get a certain tone or look on their face in order to avoid time out. I do believe that kids need time to cool off sometimes, but the location and duration of time spent cooling off should be up to the child except in very extreme circumstances.

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I think safety concerns are extreme enough to warrant choosing a different location for a child to scream. I also think that 40 minutes of crying and kicking a day is very extreme. Maybe not for this particular child, but for most kids that sounds very extreme.