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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
From the late 1800s circ was popular in English speaking countries. It dropped to next to nothing in New Zealand and the UK and has greatly declined, though to a lesser extent in Canada and Australia.

What the reasons it has remained high in the USA?

Crack this and you have almost solved the case.
 

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my first guess would be money. most of our insurance companies still cover this. Many state's medicare-type insurance doesn't, those are the states where there is a drop in rates.
 

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Money and the fact that "Well it's always been this way it can't be wrong" stubbornness.

The "We're always right and everyone's always wrong, all the countries are back asswards other than us" Mentality..

You Americans can be very Provincial people when you set your minds to it.

Oh yeah and fear...very fearful too...fear of sex, fear of the "unknown" since all you've known is the mutilated look...ect. takes alot to step out of the paradigm of fear into normalcy...
 

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The other countries are smarter and/or less stubbourn?

I think many Americans still believe that circ'ing is healthier. Which leads me to believe that other countries have better intact care and possibly that better diets in other countries lower their UTI rate.
 

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I believe the sharp of circ decline in European countries, had to do with the creation of nationalized healthcare. the gov't. did not want to pick up the tab anymore.

We are a LONG way off from that here in the US, so as long as there is no national healthcare here, i guess circ rates will remain high.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Quote:
The AAP won't choose a position.
Hence not take any responsibility.

Quote:
I believe the sharp of circ decline in European countries, had to do with the creation of nationalized healthcare.
Yes, the more entrepenurial style of US medicine helps to maintain circ
,though the only European country with non-religious circ was the UK.
 

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I think it's a combination of things.

1) We're greedy. Or rather, the powerful people in this country are greedy. They push RIC so they can make a quick buck.

2) We're obsessive about being clean. It's really over the top. I know people that shower 3 times a day. I think most people would think I'm gross if they new how often I shower or bathe, but I'm not dirty! It's just completely unnecessary to shower so much!

3) We're not all that intelligent. I know that sounds mean, but it's true. We are far behind other countries. Ours kids are not getting a good education. We are told to do this or that without thinking for ourselves. I'm a perfect example of American ignorance. I may be smart about RIC, but anything else going on in the world...forget about it. I'm just not "cultured" if that makes any sense. I try, but it's like I've been conditioned to not care about the rest of the world. I try to watch the world news to learn a thing or two, but I end up switching it off because it's boring. It's sad, but true. I'm trying though.
Most people I know are only concerned with their immediate surroundings and that leads to ignorance about the rest of the world. How many times have you come across someone who actualy believes all boys (even in other countries) are circ'ed? They don't realize Americans are alone in this cutting culture phenomenon.

4) We are pretty selfish. Everything is me, me, me. And when that translates to parenting decisions, well, you've got some crazy stuff going on. That's the norm here though. I shudder when I hear a woman say she'll circ because that's what SHE prefers sexually. I know she doesn't plan on having sex with her kid, but still, it's a very selfish decision. Or the parents who mistakenly believe there's extra cleaning involved, so they circ. Selfish.

5) Denial. If people choose not to circ, it's like saying what was done to them or their spouse (or whoever) was wrong and they can't accept that. so they continue the cycle. We deny that we are wrong. We make fun of other countries and their "elephant trunks" to justify ourselves. It's your classic "we're better than every other country" American mentality. From a very early age, I've had it drilled into me that America is the best place to live. "This is the freest country. You should thank your lucky stars you were born here." It's sickening really. Am I alone in this? I just remember in school it was constantly drilled in us that other countries weren't as good as ours. It was crazy. It was mostly history teachers too. Weird.

I think all those things together is what keeps RIC going. I honestly don't see it changing much if medicaid and insurance companies drop RIC. I know that's grim, but I think with as many myths still floating around about the intact penis, the richer people are going to pay out of pocket, then it'll be like an upper-class thing to be circ'ed, then lower-class people are going to scrimp and save to pay for it because they don't want their kid to look poor. It's not going to end until Americans stop being so greedy, selfish, and uneducated.
 

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We're more controlled by runaway corporations. These are the greedy selfish people. They own everybody else. Making a trillion dollars off of something you ripped off a baby? Okay! Make a trillion dollars off of milk you got for free? Great! But the woman would do something bad to her baby if she were paid.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by elelvee View Post
We're more controlled by runaway corporations. These are the greedy selfish people. They own everybody else. Making a trillion dollars off of something you ripped off a baby? Okay! Make a trillion dollars off of milk you got for free? Great! But the woman would do something bad to her baby if she were paid.
Each baby foreskin can be worth $750,000,000 when processed and used medically.
:

http://www.gettingit.com/article/200

Quote:
The number crunchers estimate the developed world's market for human-skin constructs is somewhere between $1 billion and $2 billion for the treatment of burns alone; for the treatment of chronic wounds (diabetic ulcers, pressure sores, and venous ulcers), the market is roughly $10 billion. Procter & Gamble, Helene Curtis, and other similar companies bought about $1 million worth of Advanced Tissue's cultured dermis for pre-market testing in 1994. Advanced Tissue's flagship skin-construct, Dermagraft, sells for $3,000 per square foot, and they can produce 250,000 square feet of Dermagraft from one foreskin. Let me do the math for you. Your kid's schwantz plays a primary role in a $750,000,000 transaction. And you've gotta put him through college.
 

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The US was founded by puritins. We have retained in our culture a funny mix of puritinism and rebellion against puritinism. I have heard this said of Americans: "If you are not a liberal in your 20s you have no heart. If you are not a conservative in your 30s you have no brain."

This about sums up the attitudes in American culture that I have been exposed to... you are expected to be "silly" when you are young, but then are supposed to "grow up" and give up caring about social issues, entertainment, art, fun, etc.

The boomers got close to breaking this mold. And their kids (or maybe the half generation after them will shatter it. Already you can see retirement Ads from some investment company for making your "dream book". Boomers pretty much invented the mid-life crisis, and they are starting to retire into a life of fun instead of a life of boredom.

I guess what I am saying is that for a very long time Americans were afraid to break traditions. Possibly because as a whole we have significantly less history and "culture" than the old world. Or maybe it was because we were so thouroughly punnished when we finally did try to shake things up in the roaring 20s. I just think that as a culture we are learning more and more that challenging "authority" and tradition is a good thing. But hey maybe the recession of 2010 will revert us back to a bunch of people too scared to smile again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm View Post
The AAP won't choose a position.
I don't think if they did it would help.

Example: Breastfeeding...
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by phatchristy View Post
Each baby foreskin can be worth $750,000,000 when processed and used medically.
:

http://www.gettingit.com/article/200
If this is true indeed, then we just need to get the info out to ignorant parents saying that if they don't cut in now for free, their son can sell it later in life for that much money if he chooses to
...
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Yulia_R View Post
If this is true indeed, then we just need to get the info out to ignorant parents saying that if they don't cut in now for free, their son can sell it later in life for that much money if he chooses to
...
Apparently infant foreskin is free from factors which cause rejection (as well as the lack of hair for the foreskin).

I am sure they have the ability to use other tissues, especially if they had to.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by phatchristy View Post
Apparently infant foreskin is free from factors which cause rejection (as well as the lack of hair for the foreskin).

I am sure they have the ability to use other tissues, especially if they had to.
How have these companies not come under huge fire for this???
Selling human organs or tissue is ILLEGAL in the US.
Why aren't some of the larger groups (NOCIRC, etc) trying to bring this to court?

Wait, just saw this quote in the article..
"The courts have ruled that you cannot take healthy tissue from an infant to benefit a third party," Hammond said. Apparently, nobody told Organogenesis or Janet Reno.

So....why is it still continuing? IS it still continuing? (this article is almost 8 years old)
 

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I think cultural factors are the biggest things - that puritan streak and the obsession about hygiene. From my Aussie perspective, Americans also seem obsessed about teeth (cleaning, whitening...) and hair (removing every little bit). The number of hygiene products in the drug stores makes my head spin. You just don't see drug stores like they have in the USA anywhere else. They have whole aisles for laxatives!
:

Ideas about cleanliness run deep. Even people who might understand the issue and research in a logical manner still dislike foreskins on an emotional level.

I'm not sure I buy the greedy business hypotheses - they might be a minor factor. But wasn't RIC well established before all that?
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by wombat View Post
I think cultural factors are the biggest things - that puritan streak and the obsession about hygiene. From my Aussie perspective, Americans also seem obsessed about teeth (cleaning, whitening...) and hair (removing every little bit). The number of hygiene products in the drug stores makes my head spin. You just don't see drug stores like they have in the USA anywhere else. They have whole aisles for laxatives!
:

Ideas about cleanliness run deep. Even people who might understand the issue and research in a logical manner still dislike foreskins on an emotional level.

I'm not sure I buy the greedy business hypotheses - they might be a minor factor. But wasn't RIC well established before all that?
I think you are very right about the cleanliness obsessions (we put bleach in pretty much everything, due to fear of GERMS...just look at the boom of antibacterial EVERYTHING in the US).

I have to disagree about the greedy business hypotheses. While RIC was established before these businesses started using foreskin (it appears to be around the year '98, judging by a lot of the information on their websites), this is simply a big reason to keep it going.

The article posted above, from gettingit.com, though well written and interesting, doesn't cite sources or anything, so it's hard for me to take it at face value. So, I did a simple google search for the words "human foreskin apligraf". I am looking for totally unbiased information, so I scrolled down through all the info from anti-circ cites.

What I found was totally and utterly disturbing. It is absolutely a money mongering industry, no doubt in my mind. IMO, this is the first and foremost reason for all the pro-circ hype. Wrap it in obsession with cleanliness and cultural puritanical "sex is dirty" myths, and there you have it.

http://www.japmaonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/92/1/19
Skin grafting provides an effective means of closing chronic wounds. Autografts and allografts are used most often in skin grafting, but Apligraf, a tissue-engineered bilayered human skin equivalent, provides another safe and effective grafting option for treating diabetic, venous, and pressure ulcers. This skin equivalent has an epidermis and dermis similar to human skin, largely due to its derivation from neonatal foreskin. Apligraf is also easily accessible and has shown little immunoreactivity. (J Am Podiatr Med Assoc 92(1): 19-23, 2002)

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1867249
"In addition, our findings suggest a critical function for the donor endothelial cell in rejection." (read it in context, they are talking about foreskin...and this is a french publication)

There's also an article at the AMA that I can't access with the free registration...I'm considering paying the $15 for it. Starts like this:
Apligraf is composed of many layers of human foreskin-derived keratinocytes that have been allowed to terminally differentiate in vitro...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...03/ai_n9200769

There are pages of them.
 
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