Mothering Forum banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,433 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi there - I just had a CPST explain to me why tethering a rear-facing convertible is dangerous. She told me that Canadian CPSTs recommend against it though several seats give the option, including the Radian XTs that I have.<br><br>
She explained that after the seat moves towards the front of the car (backwards to the RF child) in a crash, it will then snap back until the tether is taught, at which point the seat will stop but the child's head will keep going resulting in exactly the kind of injury we are trying to avoid by rear facing. This makes sense to me so now I'd like to know the other side of the coin.<br><br>
My Radian comes with instructions on how to tether it when RF and I've posted questions about how to use it correctly here (what to hook it to and how tightly) and no one has ever told me not to use it so there must be other opinions on this.<br><br>
Thanks!<br><br>
ETA - I got the official rec from Transport Canada, see below
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,279 Posts
<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lurk.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lurk">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,312 Posts
The teather streches some in a crash, so it wont 'stop short' but work more like a bungee, taking some of the impact. Thats why you are only supposed to take up the slack instead of pull it real tight (and why you can no longer use the RF teather to adjust the recline)<br><br>
It prevents cacooning, which, for heavier kids is more of a concern than for infants.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,433 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
What is cacooning? Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,042 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>leighi123</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15421255"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">The teather streches some in a crash, so it wont 'stop short' but work more like a bungee, taking some of the impact. Thats why you are only supposed to take up the slack instead of pull it real tight (and why you can no longer use the RF teather to adjust the recline)<br><br>
It prevents cacooning, which, for heavier kids is more of a concern than for infants.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Is this true for FF tether as well...that you are supposed to just take up the slack?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,324 Posts
I'm confused. Are you teathering to the front of the car (latches located near the floor, below the level of the seats) or the rear of the car (same anchors used for FF)? I've heard there are two styles...one is European or something?<br><br>
If it is to the rear of the car, I'm not sure how the teather could prevent cacooning, as it seems like it would only stop forward motion and not backward motion?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,433 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for all your answers! The cocooning thing does make sense so I can see how a tether with no slack but not tight either might be the right approach. I'll talk to the CPST again to hear her response to the cocoon risk of not tethering at all.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>lunarlady</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15424186"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'm confused. Are you teathering to the front of the car (latches located near the floor, below the level of the seats) or the rear of the car (same anchors used for FF)? I've heard there are two styles...one is European or something?<br><br>
If it is to the rear of the car, I'm not sure how the teather could prevent cacooning, as it seems like it would only stop forward motion and not backward motion?</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
I'm tethering to the front, connecting where the front passenger seat meets the floor. It's the only way that the Radian can tether while RF, according to the owner's manual and the CSPT I spoke to. She told me that some seats can tether to the back while RF. I think she said it was one of the Britaxes that has a Y shaped tether with the split close to where it connects to the seat so that you can pull each side of the Y towards the back of the car and tether there. I've never seen a picture of this though so I'm not sure that I'm properly understanding. I can't see how this would prevent cocooning either. And wouldn't the straps get in the way of getting in and out of the seat?(though of course safety trumps convenience, it still seems a little odd)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,401 Posts
Your CPST was giving outdated information. Transport Canada recommends tethering rear-facing if the seat allows it.<br><br>
Coccooning/rebounding is not a concern whatsoever. However, a RF tether stabilizes the top of the car seat, which is most beneficial in side impact crashes (which are also the most dangerous). Tethering "Aussie style" over the top of the seat (to the regular tether anchor used for forward facing) prevents over-rotation, which is a concern with older & heavier children.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,324 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>an_aurora</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15424471"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Your CPST was giving outdated information. Transport Canada recommends tethering rear-facing if the seat allows it.<br><br>
Coccooning/rebounding is not a concern whatsoever. However, a RF tether stabilizes the top of the car seat, which is most beneficial in side impact crashes (which are also the most dangerous). Tethering "Aussie style" over the top of the seat (to the regular tether anchor used for forward facing) prevents over-rotation, which is a concern with older & heavier children.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Thanks for the clarification! I actually remember asking about cocooning when DD was in her infant bucket, and they said that in an accident that was severe enough for that to happen, the seat actually is designed to flip up toward the seat back and help protect the child from unsecured objects or flying glass in the car. Makes sense to me but I don't know if that is true.<br><br>
Is it is only convertible seats that are tethered RF or are newer infant seats also equipped with a tether?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,312 Posts
The RF teathering that goes twards the back of the car doesnt prevent cacooning, it prevents over rotation (i.e. the bounceback downward/over reclining of the seat). So its solving a diffferent problem alltogether. Depending on the design of the seat and how its installed, one may be of more concern than the other. For example, my radian is very upright and is braced (which is allowed by radian and my car), so my concern would be more for cacooning vs over reclining.<br>
A seat installed at 45* with nothing behind it, the concern might be more for it over reclining. Esp for seats which are difficult to install more upright in the first place.<br><br><br><br>
I dont know of any infant seats with a teather (although there might be I dunno), but some have an anti-rebound bar which does the same thing. I know the britax infant seat and the true fit premier both have this, as well as many european seats.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,401 Posts
There was one infant seat with the tether, but it was discontinued. There are several with the anti-rebound bar that accomplish the same thing, but more gradually and gently.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,433 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>an_aurora</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15424471"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Your CPST was giving outdated information. Transport Canada recommends tethering rear-facing if the seat allows it.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Oh interesting, thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,433 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>an_aurora</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15424471"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Your CPST was giving outdated information. Transport Canada recommends tethering rear-facing if the seat allows it.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Hi everyone - I just got off the phone with Barbara Baines, she the is supreme car seat expert for Transport Canada. She designs the CPST training standards and has been working with car seat manufacturers and crash testers for over 25 years.<br><br>
She told me that <b>tethering a rear facing convertible car seat is NOT recommended in Canada</b>, though of course parents do have the choice if their seat and their car allow it. Here are the reasons:<br><br>
- cocooning is not a concern - it is extremely unlikely that the top of a child restraint will snap back far enough to hit the top of the back seat. the seat base will have shifted forward enough to make it difficult to reach the back again and it will have lost momentum by this point and will not make it that far. this is particularly true for Radians, whose heavy weight slows them down. there have been no cases of injuries to children as a result of cocooning.<br><br>
- the rebound effect on a child's neck and spine when the seat snaps backwards and hits the extent of the tether (but the child's head keeps going) is a real and serious risk<br><br>
- very few cars (she thinks only some volvos, but didn't recall exactly) have front tether points authorized by the manufacturers. using what we think is a solid tether point such as where a front seat is fixed to the floor frame of the car, poses unknown risks. in the event of a collision with injuries, car manufacturers (and i imagine insurance companies, police) could claim a malfunction due to improperly placing stress on a part of the car that is not an authorized spot for tethering.<br><br>
I am glad to finally have this clarified for me and I hope that this information helps others out too. Barbara is very happy to take calls from the public and suggested that I take the CPST training, which I think I will. Every question I have about car seats just seems to lead to more questions...<br><br>
Also just want to say that I didn't call her because I doubted your information, an_aurora, just that I was hearing conflicing info from many sources and I needed to find the ultimate authority to just tell me what to do. Both the store I bought my seats from and the CPST I spoke to suggested that I call Barbara.<br><br>
I spoke to her about something else too (RF height limits) which I'll post about in a moment.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top