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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
<a href="http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15405105&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=415898&rfi=8" target="_blank">http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site...d=415898&rfi=8</a><br><br>
She doesn't even live with him!<br><br>
And how much you want to bet that if they do seize her child, the first thing they do is sexually abuse him themselves by circing him? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry">
 

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sorry<br><br>
flame me all you want<br><br>
the child should be taken at birth<br><br>
she should never see it as along as she maintains ties to him.<br><br>
if she wants to choose a known sex offender over her child -- her choice -- but the child deson't deserve to be forced into that siutatuion.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">She insisted her husband is “a good person” who does not pose a threat to anyone.</td>
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right there -- she isn't faceing reality.<br><br>
Now -- if she said -- yes he is the biological father but will have no contact with me or the child, ever, he is scum....<br><br>
maybe.<br><br>
but if she is going to defend him, stand by him,<br><br>
then nope -- take the baby.
 

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Wow, he pled guilty to his crimes <b>22 years ago</b>.<br><br>
It's not like the guy just got out yesterday.<br><br>
I feel really horrible for this mother and, honestly, I did not realize that this was the states' policy. Why talk about reform at all?
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>paquerette</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">And how much you want to bet that if they do seize her child, the first thing they do is sexually abuse him themselves by circing him? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry"></div>
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Okay, while I am with you that circumcision may not always be the best choice for little boys, I did not know all that I know now about circumcision when both of my boys are born, so they are both circed. And I have a serious problem with you stating that they have been sexually abused. Are you freaking serious??!!<br>
There are also women on these boards who choose to have their sons circed for religious reasons. So they are guilty of sexual abuse as well?<br>
Flame away, but that is one of the stupidest things I've ever freaking heard.
 

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OMG!! This is nuts!!!<br><br>
OK, so the guy committed a sexual crime against teenagers when he was little more than a teenager himself- and it's not clear whether this was truly rape or "statutory rape." 22 years later he isn't allowed to live with his own children?<br><br>
Something is seriously messed up with the system. There really needs to be a legal distinction between child molestation and sex crimes against young people who are past puberty.<br><br>
That aside, I would never choose a man over my children. If I was in her situation, I'd dump him and get my kids back. No way would I risk losing a newborn for some guy.
 

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umm. child predators do not heal in time....this guy is a serious danger.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Mr. WolfHawk, 53, formerly named John Joseph Lentini, served a decade in New York prisons after pleading guilty to rape and sodomy in 1983. He is now on Pennsylvania’s Megan’s Law list of registered sex offenders.</td>
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I'm sure I don't have to remind you od the serious repeat offenses by sex offenders <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry">
 

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The article doesn't say why her other kids aren't in her custody. I wonder if it's because of the same issue or for another reason. For all we know the article could be leaving out other problems with this family.<br><br>
I don't think a newborn baby should be separated from his or her mother for this reason alone. Counseling and some supervision would be appropriate.<br><br><br>
And I agree that circumcision is not on the same level as sexual molestation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Okay, I agree that the intent by a person who circumcises is far different from a person who molests (most of the time. I honestly think these people who do it themselves on their kitchen tables get the same thing out of it.). But I don't think the newborn, or for that matter prepubescent little boy, processes the experience any differently. That's my belief, and I respect that y'all have yours.<br><br>
Yeah, I think the big difference here is that his prior offenses were non violent, possibly consentual, and involved teenagers. I don't think this guy is a danger to children based on the information provided.<br><br>
I do think that if I were the mom I would absolutely cut all ties with him until the case could be processed (and still, maybe that wouldn't work, knowing bureaucracy. But it's not right for the gov't to break up families like that, either.
 

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I just don't know enough from this article about this man's crimes to really say anything one way or another. It is not clear wether he actually raped anyone or if he just commited "statutory rape". And don't even get me started on Sodomy laws. In some states you can be arrested for having sex in any way other than missionary position. There is a huge difference between some one who commits "statutory rape" and a child molestor. I think in most cases statutory rape is the biggest load of bull ever. I have had several friends whose lives were destroyed based on this type of charge. I see alot of women here jumping to conclusions. Do you have more information about this man that you would like to share? Or is just hearing that he has this criminal record enough for you to decide that he is truly guilty?
 

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If it was just statutory rape that he is guilty of then I think it is ridiculous that they would want to take the child away. However it it was actual rape....if the mother will not sever all ties with the father then I most definitely think she should lose her child.
 

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There is simply not enough info to go on here. Whatever happened to a mother's instinct? True, not all are right in the head, but the guy hasn't done anything wrong since his release either. I have already been ripped to shreds here for suggesting that a newly released sex offender shouldn't be placed in housing on a college campus. Reasons were such that he is a person too and if he did his time, he should be able to live his life. Why are some of you so quick to yank this child from his mother? So, how is punishing a mother and child for the actions of another right?<br><br>
Of course, if someone has more information on this situation, I may change my mind, but I don't know right now.
 

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Not enough 411. Sticky situation...
 

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i too am appalled that she would choose him over her children.<br><br>
that said, while we don't seem to have the full story here, i think i would generally argue that the state shouldn't be able to take the child. perceived harm to the child? how far might that go? there are folks who think non-vaccinating parents are a perceived harm to their children. not sure this is a slope i want to slip down. but then, i'm feeling a bit overprotective of my rights these days.
 

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<a href="http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/LegalCenter/wireStory?id=1233801&page=2" target="_blank">http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/LegalCente...1233801&page=2</a><br><br><i>At Monday's hearing, the county produced a doctor's report that Melissa WolfHawk had acknowledged using cocaine and methamphetamine and working as a prostitute, and a New York parole document indicating DaiShin WolfHawk sexually abused his daughter. The WolfHawks have vigorously denied those allegations.</i><br><br>
Sounds like there is definately more to it...
 

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I agree with other posters that there is not enough info in the article to really form a firm opinion however I am leaning towards not having the child removed.<br>
OT for a moment. Not all statutory rapes involve a 19 yr old and a 16 year old, In fact in the state of TN the offender has to be over five years older than the victim. I do think there is something wrong with a 30 yr old man and a 16 year old girl. Seriously, what would a 30 yo want with a 16 yo other than sex??? That being said, my mom is 14 years older than my stepdad, meaning she was 30 when he was 16 but they did not get married until she was 46 and he was 32. Big difference IMO.
 

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<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/22/national/22custody.html?th=&adxnnl=1&emc=th&adxnnlx=1129987047-TMf22bxYWcHtyRU7MWcDTA" target="_blank">Officials Remove Newborn Over Father's Abuse Case</a><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">At issue, officials say, is not so much Ms. WolfHawk's fitness as a mother as her choice of mates. The newborn's father, her husband, served a decade in prison as a sex offender in New York 22 years ago, convicted in the rape and sodomy of two teenage girls. <b>The boy is the third child Ms. WolfHawk has lost for just that reason.</b> The baby - lawyers are not disclosing his name - will be in temporary custody pending a hearing on longer term arrangements on Oct. 31, as well as an ongoing challenge that Ms. WolfHawk has filed in federal court.</td>
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">"That they're going to decide who you can associate with as a parent, that's just astounding," said Mary Catherine Roper, a lawyer for the American Civil Liberties Union who is representing Ms. WolfHawk. "I don't know when imminent danger to a child became you can't have any friends we don't like, or even any exes we don't like. If you ever associate with someone who turns out to have engaged in child abuse then that's it for you."</td>
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Ms. Roper said that the two, who married in June 2002, have maintained separate residences for about two years, and that <b>Ms. WolfHawk would be willing to sign an agreement to stay away from him if that would win her custody of her child.</b></td>
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I think it's a very dangerous precedent.<br>
Are we OK with them taking anybody's children on grounds like this?<br><br>
No contest that the dad's probably a jerk and the mother is a moron. But there are plenty of jerks and morons raising kids.<br><br>
Look - either the dad is a menace to society or he isn't. And if he IS, WHY IS HE OUT ON THE STREETS? If he's not a menace, they have no grounds.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">DaiShin WolfHawk said. "What were they doing? They were trying to grab the baby before it even had its shots, circumcised, anything."</td>
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Look, though, the baby is getting sexually abused no matter who takes him.<br><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/10/21/sexoffender.custody.ap/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/10/21/se....ap/index.html</a><br><br>
(No, I don't think intent matters much in circumcision, at least from the infant's perspective. No matter how nicely the parents/doctors intend it, the child is still having their genitals cut on, usually without anesthetic. That is sexual assault, plain and simple.)
 

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ITA- The child sould be taken- it is wrong to submit a child to the hands of someone that has been charged with abuse of anykind to a child. And it also makes you wonder what kind of parents they are when the other 2 children are not in their care... My neighbor married a guy that raped his daughter then she had 2 kids with him. I have *heard* of sexual abuse going on from neigbors and such and no one has stepped in to protect those kids.<br><br>
ITA with the sexual abuse of circumcision as well. It is a human rights issue not a parenting issue.<br><br>
I pray this baby is placed in a loving family that will protect him for people like his father.
 
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