Mothering Forum banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,654 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Blegh.<br><br>
I made a comment about something I am personally passionate about - vunerable (new) mothers being taken advantage of by formula companies. [Was asked what to do with unneeded formula sent to them, I said dump it.]<br>
Companies disregarding health benefits of breastmilk.<br>
Physicians giving mothers bad advice, and down right lying to them.<br><br>
No support out there for women who are having a hard time, struggling - everywhere they turn is advertisments, propaganda, and ill meaning advice.<br><br>
Now - let me make it clear that I FULLY understand that there are instances where mothers need to suppliment, or can not breastfeed At All.<br>
But to say that is the general reason, is irresponsible - we need to be out there, putting pressure on physicians and health industries.<br><br>
Denmarks breastfeeding rate is 100%.<br>
I highly doubt anyone is out there telling those women they can't because their babies have a lactose allergy.<br><br><br><br>
So I made this comment, and was absolutely jumped on. The comment I made was specifically - I personally, would not feel right about donating formula, and I would dump it. (Nothing else. Nothing. No where else have I ever discussed this topic. )<br><br>
This is in relation to unsolicited advertisements that show up at womens doors. To give those samples away just perpetuates the cycle of normalizing formula as an equal feeding choice. [They need pumps, not cans of formula!]<br><br>
After I made this comment - woman after woman just told me that I was being insensitive, judgemental, inappropriate.<br>
I got story after story of why women were not successful breastfeeding - and made specific comments as if I were personally attacking them and their struggles.<br>
Its the opposite. I'm standing up for them, and I want them to be angry - I want them to realize that they were taken advantage of.<br><br><br><br>
I'm worn down.<br>
I thought I may get a comment or two about 'how wasteful' that would be - but I never ever imagined women personalizing this, truly offended that I dare speak against the industry.<br><br><br><br>
I would never judge them, I would never point the finger at them. I believe they did what they thought was best for their families, and how could anyone ever hold that against someone?<br>
I point the finger at the doctors giving them bad advice. THEY are responsible for perfectly fine breastfeeding relationships going down the tubes.<br><br><br>
BREASTFEEDING IS HARD.<br><br><br><br>
/end rant. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/soapbox.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="soapbox"><br><br><br><br><br>
Now, I wait. And see if my email is totally broken apart piece by piece and demolished.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,022 Posts
<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"> I totally agree with you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,977 Posts
I know, it's frustrating and honestly I rarely go to places like that anymore because as badly as they need lactivists to speak the truth, the attacks are so ugly it tears you down. Do what you can and take a break when you need it, we all have to back away sometimes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
469 Posts
I think we all get worn down with trying to promote something that so many are against.<br><br>
I will admit that I do have a few little individual samples that I am saving for a friend. I was away when her baby was born and nurses gave her so much bad advice that she wound up using some formula and started an endless cycle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
890 Posts
Add to the list how women are played off of each other by the society at large for the opinions we hold and the life choices we make - and the lack of support for us regardless of what those opinions and choices are. So we have our identities so wrapped up in our choices (much harder ones, imo (please don't flame) then men have to make), that we attack women who have made different ones. We are told to "play nice" look and act the same but to fight against those who are different.<br><br>
If women can't count on each other for support and tolerance....<br><br>
Just a bit of a spill over from me <sigh>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,654 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>velcromom</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7949098"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I know, it's frustrating and honestly I rarely go to places like that anymore because as badly as they need lactivists to speak the truth, the attacks are so ugly it tears you down. Do what you can and take a break when you need it, we all have to back away sometimes.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Thank you - everyone.<br>
It really helps to feel the support here. I honestly can't believe my comments were taken in such a destructive way.<br><br>
I understand what you're saying - but there are a lot of intelligent women that I respect and admire there.<br><br><br>
I wish women didn't take such things internally, I wish we were able to feel confident about our choices. It sucks that our society has put such doubt in its members.<br>
The world needs more hugs.<br><br><br>
We cross posted Mamajake. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"> !!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,654 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mamajake</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7949286"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Add to the list how women are played off of each other by the society at large for the opinions we hold and the life choices we make - and the lack of support for us regardless of what those opinions and choices are. So we have our identities so wrapped up in our choices (much harder ones, imo (please don't flame) then men have to make), <b>that we attack women who have made different ones.</b> We are told to "play nice" look and act the same but to fight against those who are different.<br><br>
If women can't count on each other for support and tolerance....<br><br>
Just a bit of a spill over from me <sigh></div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Bolded mine.<br><br>
Exactly.<br>
Its as if we attack different choices to somehow show that ours is the right one - and justify it.<br><br>
I'm not sure how to get my sentiment across, at this point.<br><br>
My response was:<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Me</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Hello Ladies (and a few Gents)-<br><br>
I will do my best to tread gently, and explain my comment, so you<br>
understand where I'm coming from. I am perturbed by the number of<br>
people who said that I was in some way personally attacking or judging<br>
them - I really have no idea where that came from. I apologize if one<br>
was offended at my statement, I want everyone to know that I<br>
personally acknowledge that we all do the best for our children<br>
however that may be, and what is best for one family - may not be<br>
bestfor another. I know many wonderful, caring, intelligent mothers<br>
who formula feed their children.<br><br>
Yet, I absolutely stand by my statement.<br>
Let me make it clear though - it has absolutely Nothing to do with<br>
You, or your family, or the hardships you faced trying to nurse your<br>
child. It has to do with the companies that promote and send out<br>
unsolicited formula samples to new mothers, who very well may be<br>
struggling.<br><br>
Many formula companies continues to break the World Health<br>
Organizations guidelines regarding formula promotion, advertisement.<br>
By sending out these samples and 'gifts' they are undermining women<br>
and their attempts to breastfeed their child(ren). Breastfeeding IS<br>
HARD!! And every mother needs and deserves all the support she can get<br>
- being bombarded by all of the formula advertisments, can really make<br>
an exausted new mother question herself and her choices.<br><br><br>
Similac and Enfamil are the owners of most of the formula bags given<br>
to mothers by hospitals. It is unethtical marketing. Research shows<br>
that when breastfeeding moms get commercial bags, they are less likely<br>
to breastfeed exclusively.<br><br><br>
Personally, by donating formula sent to me, I would be perpetuating<br>
the use of formula. Womens shelters and hospitals really need to be<br>
supplying pumps and education - something they are not, and it needs<br>
to change. That change will not come normalizing and accepting the<br>
current rate of breastfeeding and knowledge. The true need for it is<br>
small, what we need is more women out there supporting women,<br>
more doctors out there being properly educating, more knowledge and<br>
less judgement (on all sides.)<br><br>
Please know that you do not need to justify your reasons (or struggle)<br>
for formula feeding. It is none of my business, and I would never make<br>
it anything but. I understand that it can be quite an emotional issue<br>
for some, and I apologize that my statement could be taken as a<br>
personal attack - it was definitely not.<br>
Its an attack on the industry, not families.<br><br><br>
I've known and seen way too many mothers lose their supply or will to<br>
breastfeed due to misguided advice from physicians.<br>
[A friend was told her son was in the failure to thrive catagory, and underweight - she<br>
was told to suppliment. A month later the WHO released the new height<br>
and weight charts for breastfed infant/toddlers. He was perfectly<br>
average. Try as she might, she never got her full supply back.]<br><br>
Someone asked if I could think of a better option: donated breastmilk.<br>
Some insurance companies cover the cost of donated BM, most do not -<br>
and its ridiculously expensive - so, we ought to be focusing our<br>
energy on putting pressure on insurance companies, and the health<br>
industry (business) to provide for our children as they should.<br>
There are 'good' formula companies out there - and I'm grateful they<br>
are there.<br><br>
I hope this doesn't ruffle any more feathers - and I hope you can see<br>
that I'm coming from a good place.<br><br>
Warmly,<br><br>
Katherine</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
I hear you, and I couldn't agree more.<br><br>
It's virtually impossible to speak the simple truth about breastfeeding or about formula, and not have many women take it as a personal attack.<br><br>
It is very emotionally wearing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
892 Posts
Katfka,<br><br>
First I want to say I found your post very enlightening.In fact its proably one of the most rational posts on this issue that I've seen! I agree too that women should learn the benefits of BF and have choices widely available to them. I believe insurance should cover milk banks, lactation consultants and various other things that would help mothers.<br><br>
If Similac and Enfamil truly wanted to help by recognizing BM is the best but if as a means as a last resort, foster care, orphanges etc needed formula, they should also do a "bag" for BF moms who leave the hospital, perhaps with coupons for items related to breastfeeding.<br><br>
The only times I feel "personally" attacked are when people who cannot handle a rational, calm dialogue and resort to pettiness and name calling. I find this to be especially true when I say all of the above and I am a great person but when they find out I had to use formula for my baby due to medical reasons, I am now some kind of monster?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,188 Posts
What I don't get is why women who have "failed" at breastfeeding don't blame the medical establishment more. I struggled mightily with low supply, and had absolutely NO help from doctors, nurses and the LCs at the hospital. I only found some help on the internet.<br><br>
Why don't we collectively <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/soapbox.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="soapbox">: about getting better medical help? Why do we turn our anger inwards at ourselves, and outwards at the MESSENGER who talk about the dangers of formula? I just don't get it <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shrug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shrug">:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,269 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>velcromom</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7949098"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I rarely go to places like that anymore</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
I've seen this happen here on mdc. Now, that's sad. We can't even vent about formula on our own breastfeeding and lactivism boards sometimes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,977 Posts
It's true, the atmosphere has changed noticeably in the last couple of years.<br><br><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">What I don't get is why women who have "failed" at breastfeeding don't blame the medical establishment more.</td>
</tr></table></div>
I know! I guess we have a tendency to blame ourselves first. Especially when it comes to "authority figures" like people with letters after their names.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
892 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MaryJaneLouise</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7956489"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">What I don't get is why women who have "failed" at breastfeeding don't blame the medical establishment more. I struggled mightily with low supply, and had absolutely NO help from doctors, nurses and the LCs at the hospital. I only found some help on the internet.<br><br>
Why don't we collectively <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/soapbox.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="soapbox">: about getting better medical help? Why do we turn our anger inwards at ourselves, and outwards at the MESSENGER who talk about the dangers of formula? I just don't get it <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shrug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shrug">:</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
<br>
I think how someone reacts is also dependant on the tone of someone else message. If you are just presenting facts without snide comments (and I am not talking about you just people in general) then i know personally I have no issue or take offense.<br><br>
The OP did a great job of making rational thoughtful well explained post about what she believes and that she does understand that some women HAVE to formula feed.And its not an issue of "failing" its an issue of can't.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,496 Posts
<i>I think how someone reacts is also dependent on the tone of someone else message. If you are just presenting facts without snide comments (and I am not talking about you just people in general) then i know personally I have no issue or take offense.</i><br><br><i>The OP did a great job of making rational thoughtful well explained post about what she believes and that she does understand that some women HAVE to formula feed.And its not an issue of "failing" its an issue of can't.</i><br><br>
It's also everyone's responsibility to assume positive intent. And not everyone has the time to craft a long, detailed post checking each and every word to make sure it has no chance of offending someone.<br><br><i>Its the opposite. I'm standing up for them, and I want them to be angry - I want them to realize that they were taken advantage of.</i><br><br>
I feel ya. This is the most frustrating part for me. I joke with myself that maybe it's because I have the arrogant gene or something. <i>I</i> know where to place the blame, and it's sure not me. LOL! (Said with jest, okay?) <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"><br><br><i>What I don't get is why women who have "failed" at breastfeeding don't blame the medical establishment more. I struggled mightily with low supply, and had absolutely NO help from doctors, nurses and the LCs at the hospital. I only found some help on the internet.</i><br><br>
I was in a similar situation, though it was DD's latch and not my supply. I was just stubborn as heck about it. I refused to let the medical establishment sabotage in three days what could be years of successful nursing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
892 Posts
"It's also everyone's responsibility to assume positive intent. And not everyone has the time to craft a long, detailed post checking each and every word to make sure it has no chance of offending someone."<br><br>
No one should have to craft long letters, but all i am saying in this case it was great to understand where the OP was coming from. I don't believe one needs to post a huge footnote underneath what they write every single time. As to positive intent, again i usually take it that way unless there is a snide comment mixed in. And to me there is a difference between someone who feels defensive and takes a comment the wrong way when the person who posted did not even mean the words in that manner and a post where someone actually does use hurtful, snide comments.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top