[LoveBeads]

I recently met an AP mom who has an interesting discipline method. She has 5 children who range in age from 3 - 14. With the older kids (above 9), when there is a problem she allows them to figure out the best way to make reparations. In other words, if the 9 year old breaks the 13 year old's toy, she allows the 9-year old to brainstorm with her to figure out the best way to make amends.

It might be that the 9 year old has to write a letter of apology, it might be that the 9 year old has to do the other chlid's chores for a week, it might be that he has to pay for it. The 9 year old gets to decide.

I don't know how I feel about this. I'm digesting it.

Any opinions?

 

[hunnybumm]

I think this is great. It gives the children an opportunity to really comprehend what they did wrong and how to fix it themselves. Rather than the parent saying "Your grounded for a week" or "No phone for a week" the kid decides what is the best 'punishment' (for lack of a better word) for their actions. I also think it would be nice to get both children involved, that way they could learn to work through the issue together. I think this helps prepare them for real life when they have relationships with friends and teachers, then later co-workers and significant others.

 

[TanyaMT]

I think it is wonderful as long as it is used for an appropriate age (younger ones might need help still deciding). One of the reasons I like it is that it is what we have to do as an adult, so it helps them learn to function in the world. When I hurt a friend or do something wrong, I also have to decide what I can do to make amends.

Does she help the 3-year-old? I would think that age though would need adult help thinking through the situation and choosing what to do.

 

[Chanley]

Sounds like something we might do here as well.

It empowers the children to be empathetic and fully actualize the impact of thier actions on others.

Punitive responses thwart introspection. We are all about really exploring our actions and thier impact in a safe place. If I am angry and authoritarian, it takes the focus off of the situation and displaces it on a punishment.

Anyway...I really dig that.

 

[Dragonfly]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveBeads I recently met an AP mom who has an interesting discipline method. She has 5 children who range in age from 3 - 14. With the older kids (above 9), when there is a problem she allows them to figure out the best way to make reparations. In other words, if the 9 year old breaks the 13 year old's toy, she allows the 9-year old to brainstorm with her to figure out the best way to make amends.

I think it's fantastic. Have you read "Kids Are Worth It?" by Barbara Coloroso? This is one of the things she advocates. It helps kids to take responsibility for their actions without the parent imposing a punishment. It gets them thinking about what they did without blame. I remember the following example from her book:

Her child is careless and loses a friend's sweater (or something like that) that the friend had let her borrow. She says something like, "Hm. Well, it seems like you've got a problem. What do you think you can do to fix it?" Then she brainstorms with her child and the child eventually comes up with the idea to replace the sweater and how to go about doing it (setting aside her allowance, etc.).

I think the key is, though, not forcing the child into the solution. It should be the child's process, even if the solution is subpar in your opinion. Kind of like mediation - the important part is the process, not so much the result.

ETA: I should have just read Chanley's post before writing. :LOL

 

[Plummeting]

I second Kids are Worth It. That book would explain why this discipline method is absolutely appropriate. Discipline is about teaching kids how to become productive members of society and that's exactly what that method does. People all make mistakes and most "discipline" methods only teach kids that they get in trouble when they make a mistake, not that they can come up with their own solutions to the problems their mistake has caused. For example, if a 9 year old broke his brother's toy and Mom said, "Well, you broke it, so I'm going to make you pay for it out of your allowance," the kid hasn't learned how to solve the problem on his own. He has only learned that when he makes a mistake, someone else is going to come along and force him to correct it their way. Furthermore, he probably doesn't feel very happy about her solution. If, OTOH, Mom does what you said, he could come up with several ideas of his own. For example, he could replace it with one of his own toys, ask the brother if he could do some of his chores for him to make up for it, use his own money to buy a new toy, etc. Then he can own whatever solution he came up with and feel good about it because it was his own idea. Furthermore, he has learned a lesson in problem solving and he has gained confidence in hiw own ability to solve problems.

 

[UnschoolnMa]

Sounds good to me, as long as any kid who needs help deciding gets it.

We would do much the same thing.

 

[LoveBeads]

Thanks for the responses. My immediate reaction was that I really liked it.

I am wondering if my 5-year old is ready for something like this?

And in answer to a previous poster's question, she is not working with the 3-year old yet to come up with solutions but isn't "punishing" the younger ones either. I should ask her what is the "magic age" for implementing this system.

 

[mleavell]

Maybe start with the 5 year old by giving them 2 or 3 choices of 'punishment' and letting them pick. That way, you are still able to guide them and help them learn what comes from bad actions. After a while start asking what they think they should do.

I love the original idea, especially with older children. It definetly would help them be more responsible. It would be hard for them to complain if they picked out their own punishment.

 

[Dragonfly]

LoveBeads - I think you can start it from very young by just not swooping in for the fix every time something happens. When children learn from very young that they can take care of things - cleaning up spills (helping, of course), etc. - they start to develop these sorts of skills. When the issue involves other children - say your child has done something that another child objects to, we can make observations about the situation ("X looks very upset") and ask questions about what we might do to fix it, "I wonder what we can do to help X feel better" or "What can we do so that you and X can both do what you want?"

Poor example, I know... I'm hot and tired. :LOL I think as long as children see that there is a thought process at work and not just a result - that they see that modeled - they'll learn. They can be involved in small ways from very young ("Can you think of something that might help X feel better?") and even if they can't come up with options, they're still a part of the process.

I think our children are about the same age? (My son is 4.5.) Half the time his stock answer is, "I don't know" and a shrug... the other half, he's game for coming up with options. It helps if you have friends who are pretty hands-off where child disputes are concerned. Then they really get the chance to figure things out.

Btw: I just want to be clear that this isn't about 'punishment' - not for me, anyway. I wouldn't force anything on my child. I would hope that he would participate and if he didn't, so be it. The fallout in some cases would be his to deal with - in Coloroso's scenario, for example, the child would eventually have to face up to the friend whose sweater was lost. There's no need to impose consequences, IMO. Children learn just fine without them.

 

[LoveBeads]

Thanks so much for your reponse. I agree that lately I have been doing way too much "swooping" for anyone's benefit! Just yesterday my DD was teasing her friend at the pool for not being able to swim and on the way home I didn't handle it too well. I was more in a mindset of "you wouldn't like it if someone said that to you" and "don't do that again" instead of "how do you think you would feel if someone did that to you" and "what do you think we could say to your friend to make her feel better".

Oh, and this is totally OT but when I read this

Quote:

Poor example, I know... I'm hot and tired.

I thought it said, "I'm hot and bothered" and my first thought was "gee, I wonder why she's telling me that?" :LOL

Anyway, also ITA that it is not about punishment. I definitely did not handle the situation well yesterday and I think I need to rectify it with DD tonight.

Peace!

 

[flyingspaghettimama]

This is also in the "Love and Logic" books as well - I used this strategy a lot when working with teenagers. They caught on very quickly and seemed to "own" the solution.

We do use it with our five year old. I do not come up with punishments, reparations, or solutions, but I have asked her to spend a few minutes thinking about what's happened and how we can work it out. I.e. once she told DH that he was, "the worst dad in the WHOLE WORLD." I think because he wouldn't let her cut up our tablecloth. We do expect her to think about and/or listen to our feelings, and then we ask her how we can make the situation better - is there something she needs to say? something we need to say? If she says something cruel to a friend, same thing - how can we work this out? An action? Something to say? There does need to be a level head though first, in order to work it out. It's not something (parent or child) that comes to you when you're in the thick of the argument or emotion.

I did not find the Love and Logic for Preschoolers to be useful at all though; the one for older children is better, although it does have a section on spanking and timeouts that, like Sears discourages it even while telling you how to do it. I ignore that business.

 

[katallen]

I read about this method in Time In When Time Out Isn't Working (I think that is the correct title) and I like the ideas in it but I think that it is for kids who are older, at least 5, because it seems like a lot for a little child to understand.

 

[Ruthla]

Sounds great to me!!

The only difference I'd make is to have the other affected child in on the decision making process- if the 9yo breaks the 14yo's toy, the 14yo should have some input on whether or not the 9yo's suggestions are acceptable to help "repay" the damage.

 

[CJNeeley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruthla Sounds great to me!! The only difference I'd make is to have the other affected child in on the decision making process- if the 9yo breaks the 14yo's toy, the 14yo should have some input on whether or not the 9yo's suggestions are acceptable to help "repay" the damage.

Except if the other child is a part of the "decision making," I'd be afraid it could end up too likely the child will still be told what to do to just by the sibling instead of the parent--not any better IMO. I think they'd learn better decision making skills if they brainstormed and came to a decision without the wronged party's input. But then the other child could always say after that if it was "acceptable to help "repay" the damage." Then the child would get to: learn how to make decisions/amends and learn about other people's expectations/needs and learn about negotiating with other people to work things out.

 

[cmb123]

This has always worked really well in our house. It just makes more sense to me than prescibing a punishment.

 

[Ruthla]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJNeeley Except if the other child is a part of the "decision making," I'd be afraid it could end up too likely the child will still be told what to do to just by the sibling instead of the parent--not any better IMO. I think they'd learn better decision making skills if they brainstormed and came to a decision without the wronged party's input. But then the other child could always say after that if it was "acceptable to help "repay" the damage." Then the child would get to: learn how to make decisions/amends and learn about other people's expectations/needs and learn about negotiating with other people to work things out.

Good point.

:

 

[AdoptChina]

well Im a firm believer in having the kids try and work it out together (just ask my 5 yr old....any time she comes to me to complain about something her brother is doing I just look at her and she says "I know, work it out" lol)....I do tell them that the solution needs to be ok with both of them and I listen to hear what is being said...if they need some guidance I step in and assist. I think problem solving is a skill they need to learn, and making ammends for some wrong doing is an off-shoot of that in a way