http://www.teh.k12.ca.us/files/mnu_menu_7.pdf this is the schools test scores for last year. Am I alone in thinking there really bad and no way in
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would you send your kid there?
Would you send your kid to this school?
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Why would you see these as horrible scores?
This school is outperforming the average California school by 12-14 percentage points in English and Math on the California Standards Test, and by 11-16 percentage points on the Norm-Referenced Test, as well as scoring about the average school in the entire US by 9-11 percentage points on this test. These are above-average test scores.
Of course, I personally don't think scores mean much in terms of education, and I would worry about the huge (average size 29-30) classes in grades 4-6, but the early grades can't have more than 20, so you're okay there.
Dar
This school is outperforming the average California school by 12-14 percentage points in English and Math on the California Standards Test, and by 11-16 percentage points on the Norm-Referenced Test, as well as scoring about the average school in the entire US by 9-11 percentage points on this test. These are above-average test scores.
Of course, I personally don't think scores mean much in terms of education, and I would worry about the huge (average size 29-30) classes in grades 4-6, but the early grades can't have more than 20, so you're okay there.
Dar
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It's a sad situation, but students in public schools are basically being taught test-taking, and little else. At least, that's how it looks from my POV.
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I totally agree with the schools are teaching test-taking and that is all. They are all in a race to make sure their scores are the best. This was one of the reasons I chose to pull my crew from public school. I had no intention of homeschool my crew, but I have been increasing more frustrated with the school system we chose.
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You're speaking of the CST? To me, it says that the arbitrarily-determined "grade level" standards for "proficiency" are unrealistic, since the majority of the children aren't meeting them. Left behind whom? They're ahead of the average child of the same age in the state and in the country, based on the norm-referenced tests. If they're above average and below "grade level", then the problem is the tests, not the children.
It's sort of like Lake Wobegon in reverse, where all the children are below grade level.
I'm still confused that you see these as "really bad" scores. I'm not sure if you're not understanding the statistics or... well, I don't see any way that you could understand the statistics and still see the scores as "really bad". To me, that would imply below average, at least. These aren't.
dar
Originally Posted by Satori They way I see it is about half the kids are testing below grade level. Thats scary that 1/2 the kids are being left behind. |
It's sort of like Lake Wobegon in reverse, where all the children are below grade level.
I'm still confused that you see these as "really bad" scores. I'm not sure if you're not understanding the statistics or... well, I don't see any way that you could understand the statistics and still see the scores as "really bad". To me, that would imply below average, at least. These aren't.
dar
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Before making a decision I would need to see some socio-economic data for the school.
In our area (greater Puget Sound) you can get a report that not only ranks the school based on test scores, but based on what their test scores *should* be (based on income levels). You can get a school in a very poor area, with many ESL students and high turnover that performs below the state average BUT it is much better than they statistically "should". You can also have a school that performs above average, but given their neighborhood, they *should* be performing a LOT better. I would have to assume that the first school has some motivated teachers and would actually be more interested in sending my child their (think that the teachers are really working).
Additionally, if you are interested in test scores, page 8 & 9 seem especially relevant given that they have a specific goal, are working towards it and actually exceeding their target each year.
Now, ignoring the test. I find standardized tests like that to be fairly meaningless. They are generally, at this point, not compossed by educators by *test selling companies.* They do not necessarily have any correlation to actual knowledge or academic success. Low test scores *in and of themself* do not bother me at all. Realistically, the emphasis on test scores in a school would disturb me more.
I would tour any school before I allowed my child to go there. Get some answers to things that concern you (PE, recess, music, homework, bullying, etc...). That, to me, is a bigger deal than the result of a test.
In our area (greater Puget Sound) you can get a report that not only ranks the school based on test scores, but based on what their test scores *should* be (based on income levels). You can get a school in a very poor area, with many ESL students and high turnover that performs below the state average BUT it is much better than they statistically "should". You can also have a school that performs above average, but given their neighborhood, they *should* be performing a LOT better. I would have to assume that the first school has some motivated teachers and would actually be more interested in sending my child their (think that the teachers are really working).
Additionally, if you are interested in test scores, page 8 & 9 seem especially relevant given that they have a specific goal, are working towards it and actually exceeding their target each year.
Now, ignoring the test. I find standardized tests like that to be fairly meaningless. They are generally, at this point, not compossed by educators by *test selling companies.* They do not necessarily have any correlation to actual knowledge or academic success. Low test scores *in and of themself* do not bother me at all. Realistically, the emphasis on test scores in a school would disturb me more.
I would tour any school before I allowed my child to go there. Get some answers to things that concern you (PE, recess, music, homework, bullying, etc...). That, to me, is a bigger deal than the result of a test.
Tired,
Its a lower middle class neighborhood. Mostly apt's, most homes are 20+ years old. Those that can afford the $300+ mo tuition send there kids to the private school next to us. The people here are mostly 20-30 yr old somethings that are struggling to make the bills. The school does get Title 1 funds. Found it! About half are considered "Economically Disadvantaged".
Dar,
The way I'm seeing this is in 2003 which is the last date data is available 49% of the students are BEHIND in reading. 39% are BEHIND in math. Roughly half the students are behind in English/Language/Arts. There requirements are not that high. I don't care what there doing compared to the rest of the state. The scores are sad over all local or state. Maybe I'm being unreasonable but I expect at least 90% of students to be performing at or above grade level (excluding special ed students). If most students are not cutting it that tells me someone is not doing their job. I don't care if its lack of motivation in the students or poor teaching, it needs to be fixed. I attended this school when I was a kid and they had a lot of problems then too, not much seems to have changed. I mean its not this school http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/...de/1390/#stan9 (where I graduated from btw and now I get to pay at college to learn math I should I learned in HS) but its not that great either ya know? I think I'm just going to have to shell out the money for a sitter so I get study time and home school her. I'm not going to risk my child being one of those kids left behind like I was in that school. Wow, just looked at the test scores county wide and in general about 1/3 are making it to "Proficient" with a few above that and the rest failing. Were home schooling as long as we live in this county I think.
Its a lower middle class neighborhood. Mostly apt's, most homes are 20+ years old. Those that can afford the $300+ mo tuition send there kids to the private school next to us. The people here are mostly 20-30 yr old somethings that are struggling to make the bills. The school does get Title 1 funds. Found it! About half are considered "Economically Disadvantaged".
Dar,
The way I'm seeing this is in 2003 which is the last date data is available 49% of the students are BEHIND in reading. 39% are BEHIND in math. Roughly half the students are behind in English/Language/Arts. There requirements are not that high. I don't care what there doing compared to the rest of the state. The scores are sad over all local or state. Maybe I'm being unreasonable but I expect at least 90% of students to be performing at or above grade level (excluding special ed students). If most students are not cutting it that tells me someone is not doing their job. I don't care if its lack of motivation in the students or poor teaching, it needs to be fixed. I attended this school when I was a kid and they had a lot of problems then too, not much seems to have changed. I mean its not this school http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/...de/1390/#stan9 (where I graduated from btw and now I get to pay at college to learn math I should I learned in HS) but its not that great either ya know? I think I'm just going to have to shell out the money for a sitter so I get study time and home school her. I'm not going to risk my child being one of those kids left behind like I was in that school. Wow, just looked at the test scores county wide and in general about 1/3 are making it to "Proficient" with a few above that and the rest failing. Were home schooling as long as we live in this county I think.
My elem. school is " behind" in standards testing. Why? Because 90% percent of the children come into Kind. not knowing ANY English (literally 3 kids in the class of 20 this year knew English coming in). Between K and 8th grade, they are taught English in addition to other subjects. By the time they go into High School test scores surprisingly "rise dramatically." The elementary school is almost always at the bottom of test scores. The high school, which gets every one of our elem. students ( we have a small district with one ES and one HS) ranked number one last year in standards test scores.
I agree with PP that test scores do not show the dedication of teachers, and how hard they work to teach the children. Ask if you can observe a couple of classes to see what goes on IN the classroom. This is a better indicator than test scores
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I agree with PP that test scores do not show the dedication of teachers, and how hard they work to teach the children. Ask if you can observe a couple of classes to see what goes on IN the classroom. This is a better indicator than test scores
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I would like to point out that these test score DO NOT exclude any children who are classified as special ed, or esl...their scores are averaged in to the master score.
Their class size looks very good until 4th an 5th grade. With only 3 primary schools in the school district...I would compare their scores to those of the other two schools since this school appears to have scores above the disrtict average.
Another thing to consider is how much " student flow" the school has. That can really bring down test scores and hurt classroom instruction. That isn't addressed in the NCLBA report...
Also want to point out that "private school" can sometimes mean "unaccountable" (I went to a private catholic primary school, were we had 50 kids to a classroom, one teacher, no special ed, etc. Hurt me in Jr High)
| (excluding special ed students) |
Their class size looks very good until 4th an 5th grade. With only 3 primary schools in the school district...I would compare their scores to those of the other two schools since this school appears to have scores above the disrtict average.
Another thing to consider is how much " student flow" the school has. That can really bring down test scores and hurt classroom instruction. That isn't addressed in the NCLBA report...
Also want to point out that "private school" can sometimes mean "unaccountable" (I went to a private catholic primary school, were we had 50 kids to a classroom, one teacher, no special ed, etc. Hurt me in Jr High)
Believe me, I'm well aware of the impact special ed kids have on the test scores. I've dealt with far to many families and IEP issues and the dist trying to get the kids out of the dist for fear of the kids messing with scores (& the budget!).
Lets put it this way, even school employee's don't send there kids to the local schools. Even the superintendent HS's his kids rather then send them there! Of course I didn't find this out as it was kept hush hush until he quit because he was tired of all this BS going on at the schools. It was pretty bad, I had the misfortune of getting to arrange a meeting between him and the special ed students parents and he was actually advised to wear a bullet proof vest to the meeting parents were so angry about what was going on with services and stuff. I really did expect violence, thankfully most everyone behaved
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Lets put it this way, even school employee's don't send there kids to the local schools. Even the superintendent HS's his kids rather then send them there! Of course I didn't find this out as it was kept hush hush until he quit because he was tired of all this BS going on at the schools. It was pretty bad, I had the misfortune of getting to arrange a meeting between him and the special ed students parents and he was actually advised to wear a bullet proof vest to the meeting parents were so angry about what was going on with services and stuff. I really did expect violence, thankfully most everyone behaved
I don't put much into or take much out of test scores. Those scores could have been 99% and all it would tell me is that that school is teaching the test...not necessarily that the kids were learning and way ahead of everyone and testing so great. Make sense?
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