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<p>DD1 was/is a crappy sleeper. Woke at least every 2 hours until she turned 2 and I night-weaned her.  Now, at nearly 3 she sometimes STTN but usually wakes up at least once or twice.</p>
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<p>When DD2 was born I was *really* hoping that I'd catch a break this time around, and for the first week or so it looked like I might.  DD2 was a nice sleepy newborn, falling asleep easily and staying asleep for reasonable stretches (she even slept a 5 hour stretch her very first night!)</p>
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<p>But as time goes on things are getting worse and worse.  Is is something I'm doing wrong? I really just can't figure it out, but every other baby I see or know of seems to be at least reasonable in the sleeping department - whereas *both* of mine are terrible.  Please help me see if there's anything I'm doing 'wrong' that I can fix to try to get some more sleep.</p>
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<p>Our typical day:</p>
<p>Get up 8am Nurse baby</p>
<p>Breakfast with toddler while baby plays on gym mat</p>
<p>Read some books together and play</p>
<p>10am ish Get a puzzle or markers down for DD1 to keep her occupied while I attempt to get DD2 down for a nap.  This takes upwards of 20-30 minutes and involves a 'nap routine' including changing nappy, blackout blind, white noise and nursing to sleep in our bed (sometimes moving her into her sidecarred cot)  If I'm really lucky she'll sleep by herself for 1-1.5 hours, but far more usual is that she'll wake up after 20-40 minutes crying and I'll go back up to see if I can nurse her back to sleep (another 20 minutes at least) and then possibly sneak away for another 20-40 minutes, or she'll just refuse to go back to sleep, so up we get.</p>
<p>1pm Lunch</p>
<p>2pm ish Same again with the nap scenario</p>
<p>3-4pm baby up again Play, make dinner, DH comes home, have dinner</p>
<p>6.30pm Bring baby up to bed.  Bedtime routine including a baby massage with lavender scented oil, white noise, blackout blind, swaddling (sometimes - I'm not sure if this helps or hinders)  Somewhere between 7-8pm she'll finally be asleep enough that I can sneak away for a bit.  For quite a few weeks she would then sleep at least a 3 hour stretch at this point which was great because I could actually count on a little bit of time to rest/have me time/ hang out with DH/catch up with sleep etc. but now that's gone by the wayside too.  </p>
<p>For the rest of the night - on a very good night she will only wake 4-5 times, on an average night she's waking every 30-60 minutes and on a bad night every 20-30 minutes with a good chunk of wide-awake-in-the-middle-of-the-night time.</p>
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<p>By my count she's only getting maybe 13-14 hours of sleep (and that's counting all the time she spends nursing when she's half-awake half-asleep).  Which would be okay if it was enough for her, but it's not.  She's cranky nearly all the time and I spend most of my day trying to either help her to sleep or stop her from crying because she's cranky and exhausted.  This is absolutely not fair on DD1, who's been quite good about it all, but does deserve to have some time with her mama too.</p>
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<p>At least DH deals with DD1's nightwakings now, but I'm still utterly exhausted from the constant waking.  Nothing but nursing will put her back to sleep.  I've tried rocking, bouncing, walking, patting, shushing etc.  All she wants is booby.  If DH takes her to give me a break then she will be wide awake and fussy/crying for the entire time (2 hours the other night) which means neither of us really gets a break because I can't sleep when I hear her.</p>
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<p>I don't think I'm being unreasonable in expecting that a 3 month old should be able to go 3 hours at a stretch at night.  I am prepared to help her, feed her and comfort her at night - but I do need some unbroken sleep for my own sanity.  I have a disc problem in my back now (from constantly carrying and rocking DD2) and can barely stand or walk.  I'm in constant pain, and having to keep lifting her and turning over in bed is not helping.  Plus I need her to be happier during the day so I can spend some time with my older one, and because I actually physically can't wear her, hold her, rock her much/at all at the moment.  I'm a horrible person right now - I'm constantly miserable and snapping at the kids and DH, and even wishing I'd never had kids at all (which isn't me - I love my babies!)  I just want to be able to enjoy my children!</p>
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<p>I have just eliminated dairy from my diet (just over a week ago) although DD2 wasn't showing any signs of dairy intolerance other than the crankiness and no-sleeping.  It hasn't had any effect yet.</p>
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<p>I've tried just letting her fall asleep when she's tired - nope - she just doesn't go to sleep at all and gets crankier and crankier till she's just screaming inconsolably while rubbing her exhausted little red eyes.  Then it's even harder to finally get her to sleep.  She won't fall asleep out of the home, or if she does it's only a 20 minute cat nap and then she's cranky the rest of the time we're out.  She just won't *stay* asleep.  I bought a travel system, thinking if she fell asleep in the car seat I could just take her out, click it on the frame and go - and she could stay asleep.  Fat chance!!  If I wear her out she might eventually fall asleep, but if I stop moving, or there's any kind of noise, or anything really then she's wide awake and fussy again.</p>
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<p>Please, please help me figure out what I can do to get this baby to sleep a bit better.  I'm not expecting a miracle, but I do need some 3 hour stretches at least!!</p>
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<p>ETA: She's fed on demand round the clock, which works out at about every 2 hours during the day, and god knows how often at night.  She was born 9lb 8oz and is now just about 15lb at 13 weeks, which I think is okay? And we're prisoners in the house because there's nowhere we can get to and back from in time to get her home for her next sleep.</p>
 

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<p>I felt bad reading and not posting. None of my kids are like this (I know that doesn't really help), but I do have friends with high needs/sensory children/babies. They have all been helped by reading the Dr. Sears "Fussy Baby Book." There are also books out about sensory children, but I can't recall any of the names right now. Hopefully someone else will come along and post too.</p>
 

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<p>I have so been there.. and continue to be there.  I think, at least for my kids, they are unable to put themselves back to sleep.  So as they are coming out of the sleep cycles they are unable to adjust back to sleeping soundly again.  To help my kids, and it only mildly worked is to lay in bed with them at nap  and coax them back to sleep when they start to stir.  I also worked hard on not laying them down fully asleep but really drowsy.  I still held them but didn't nurse them.  And I think it helped them learn to put themselves back to sleep without needing to nurse.  I also didn't night wean really but didn't nurse them everytime they awoke.  Instead I patted and sung first, but if they got upset then I nursed them.  This may help you out, </p>
 

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<p>During the (weekend )days I carry our baby for naps (at daycare she naps in a swing) in a wrap. That way she gets enough sleep and I don't get frustrated putting her to sleep during the day. At night it is also all booby over here. Maybe we are having growth spurts? Ours is almost 7 months. When I get really tired I go to bed with the kids (we co sleep with all 3) at 9 pm.</p>
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<p>Carma</p>
 

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<p><span><img alt="hug.gif" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/hug.gif"></span></p>
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<p>I know what you are going through. I really, really do. Our lives have revolved around our babies' sleep (or lack thereof) for over 4 years now. For the first 2 years of DS1's life, I spent almost every day recovering from the night before. We were often held hostage in our home because of our baby's sleep patterns. I have complete empathy for you. </p>
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<p>It gets better. </p>
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<p>It probably won't ever look like other people's life where they lay a sleepy baby down and they quietly drift off to sleep for the next 6-8 hours without waking...but it will change and evolve and get better for you and your baby.</p>
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<p>DS2 is almost 13 months, and although a much better sleeper than DS1, daytime napping has been awful. I couldn't go anywhere for the first 4 or 5 months without bringing along a yoga ball, When he got sleepy during the day, holding him and bouncing on a yoga ball was the <strong>only</strong> way he'd go to sleep. </p>
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<p>Then one day at about 5 months old, he fell asleep on my back in the Ergo while we were at the zoo. And he slept there for like an hour. And woke up happy. <img alt="carrot.gif" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/carrot.gif"></p>
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<p>Around this same time, he started fall asleep in the car. So sometimes when we were having a really hard nap day I'd load the kids in the car and go for a drive. (Which never would have worked for DS1 because he was a carseat screamer.)</p>
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<p>Things are not perfect still. I usually have to hold him or lay with him for naps. Which means DS1 watches a little more tv than I'd like. But it is worth it to have a happy, rested baby. Otherwise the baby would be screaming from tiredness the entire time I'd be trying to play with DS1. It's temporary and it is ever-changing. Who knows what it will look like in a week or a month? But taking it one day at a time is the only way I've been able to cope.</p>
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<p>It'll change. It'll get better. Hang in there. </p>
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<p>And I'm typing this from my glider, with DS2 napping on my lap and DS1 watching Sesame Street in the hopes that if DS2 gets a good nap we'll be able to leave the house today. heh.</p>
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My dd#2 is 10 weeks, and our day looks a lot different than yours. She nurses every 2 hours, and she can only stay awake maybe 1 hr 15 min MAX before she needs to sleep. I walk her around the house while talking or singing with my 2.5 yr old, and then lay her down after she's in a deep sleep, 20 minutes or so. Or if we are busy cooking or out of the house, she goes in the carrier. This means that her max nap time is about 45 minutes because then she needs to nurse again, and only 20-30 minutes of that is out of my arms. While my toddler naps, I usually lay down and nurse/nap for about 2 hours in the afternoon. She doesn't sleep great at night, and I haven't quite figured out her bedtime routine, but I get at least a 4 hr stretch without waking. So it sounds to me like maybe your LO is not getting enough sleep? Good luck!<br><br>
Bethany
 

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<p>Just wanted to say that I have been there. My DD did not do much more than catnap for the first 8 months of her life. When she was awake, she spent 99% of her time nursing. So, I would have 20 minutes at a time maybe three times a day to get stuff done around the house. At the time, I didn't have a sling, but I would now if I could go back...After she started to crawl, things started to get better. She started napping for longer stretches, although she never got up to two naps, usually just one long one. Now, she is 14 months and I find that if I take her outside and run her around she gets tired enough to take a good nap-generally around 90 minutes or so. I just have to do it in the morning otherwise she takes a late nap, which then messes up her bedtime. That happened yesterday-she didn't go to bed until 9. She missed her window, and got a bit overstimulated so I had to take her in the bedroom and sit with her while she cried a bit until she realized I was serious about going to bed. I don't really have any advice, except to say hang in there, it will get better. Reading the No Cry Sleep Solution and The Sleep Lady books really helped me.</p>
 

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<p>My sympathies, as DS1 was much like what you describe, and I was rather insane from sleep deprivation. It's no fun. Some things you could try:</p>
<p>Does she sleep if you put her in the carseat and drive around? That would kill two birds with one stone, getting her to nap and getting you and DD1 out of the house for a bit of time, and maybe you can even manage to get her out of the car without waking her (if you are lucky).</p>
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<p>You could also try putting her in a hammock, swing, or vibrating bouncy chair as some babies sleep more soundly in those.</p>
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<p>I would also recommend good earplugs, the white noise machine, and sleeping in shifts with your husband. Pump milk, put in the earplugs, turn on the white noise machine, and sleep from 7 p.m. to 1 a.m. and let DH take care of the kiddo, then he can sleep from 1 a.m. to 7 a.m. and you can deal with the babe. Also, ask him to take the kids out of the house once or twice a week so you can just nap and recharge. Getting run down is a recipe for depression, suboptimal immune function, and a bad back (as you've found out). So, take care of yourself, even if you have to 'deprive' the baby a little bit. She will still have responsive caregiving, and she will be okay if you are absent for a few hours. Remember, if momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.</p>
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<p>The other thing I would suggest is taking her to a pediatric chiropractor in case she has some sort of misalignment in her neck or back that is making some discomfort that keeps her from resting peacefully.</p>
 

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Discussion Starter #9
<p>Thanks mamas - it's good to get some ideas and reassurance.</p>
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<p>One good thing, I suppose, is that having had one really awful sleeper already I do know that it eventually gets better.  But a big part of me is just crying 'no fair' - surely I'm entitled to a decent sleeper after how awful DD1 was?!!  Plus the fact that before kids I was the sort of person who *needed* a good 8-9 hours sleep a night to be at my best.  Now I'm on 3 years without sleeping through the night, and looking at potentially at least another 3.  It's just depressing.</p>
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<p>Yes, I agree that she definitely isn't getting enough sleep, but I just can't get her to sleep any more than she already is doing.  If I try putting her down for a nap earlier than I have been doing it just takes that much longer for her to actually fall asleep - and that's time that poor DD1 is just kicking about downstairs on her own (making it all the more likely that she'll get bored and come up and barge into the room just as I've gotten DD2 off to sleep, waking her up for good...)</p>
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<p>I would love to be able to wear her for naps, but 1) bad back is negating that right now obviously, 2) no matter how hard I've tried over the past few weeks I just cannot satisfactorily learn how to put her on my back by myself 3) when DH has helped me she has cried and cried until we took her back out again 4) if I wear her on my front she's happy enough, but only if I'm constantly moving (and sitting and jiggling doesn't work) so getting anything else done is out of the question - plus if I stop moving at all she'll wake back up and that'll be the end of the sleeping.</p>
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<p>I've tried the swing and the bouncy chair - no go.  She likes the bouncy chair to sit in for a few minutes but absolutely no way would she fall asleep in it.  And hates the swing.  Took her to 2 different osteopaths for cranio-sacral adjustments - no change, or if anything it got worse, as it's progressively getting worse with time.  Honestly, it makes me cry when I think of how much money (that we really can't afford) that I've spent on various things in the desperate hope that it will improve things.</p>
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<p>I like the idea of taking shifts with DH and getting some earplugs - but I'm useless at pumping.  I just can't let down for the pump at all.  I pumped for 20 minutes at a time 3 times yesterday and only got 2.5 oz total - which really isn't enough to tide her over for 5-6 hours, not to mention how difficult it is to find an hour in the day to sit and pump with a little manual pump.  (I just cannot afford a super-duper pump)  I might persist with the pumping, at least a bit though, because part of me is now wondering whether I might have low supply, and if she's waking so often out of actual hunger?</p>
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<p>I might even try it tonight - offer her the bottle after I nurse her and see if she sleeps a longer stretch after that.  It will be her first ever bottle - she's never had anything but mama's milk straight from the tap so far.  If I can up my supply a bit and maybe get better at pumping a bit more then I'll definitely try the shift thing with DH - he'd be relieved to be able to do something to actually help me get some sleep but he's nervous being left on his own with the baby without any way to feed her.</p>
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<p>She's 3 months today, so a little part of me is just hoping against hope that it's the '3 month colic' and that she'll turn over a new leaf and start sleeping better now!!</p>
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<p>are you drinking any caffeine? I know with my DS at that age, I couldn't even have a square of chocolate without him reacting. He was hypersensitive to it. He would stay up til midnight most nights, and sleep for 8 hours. then only take 20-40 minute naps during the day. His eyes were constantly red and he actually went on a nursing strike at 2 months. It was horrible. At the time I was only drinking maybe 1 cup of green tea a day, or a half a cup of coffee. It was enough to really set him off. If not caffeine, it could be the milk..I'd give it another week. It can take up to two weeks to get dairy out of the system. I hope you figure it out soon! I went on a full fledged elimination diet for about 3 weeks with DS before I finally realized it was just the small amount of caffeine I was having daily!</p>
 

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<p>I just read your most recent post and this is exactly how DS was..he didn't want to be worn on my back..he'd freak out, and if he was in front, he was fine as long as I was moving. He'd fall asleep in the car(constant movement) or with me bouncing him on my knee while nursing. So I don't know if it was the caffeine or colic, because the caffeine was gone by 3 months, but that's usually the magic age when colic goes away anyway. So, I don't know which it was!</p>
 

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<p>Ah, I didn't even think of the caffeine.  I don't think I'm drinking an excessive amount - just a couple of cups of tea a day (well below the 250mg) but it might well be an over-sensitivity on her part.  I'll try cutting that out too - but oh, how tired I'll be then!!  Thanks for the idea.</p>
 

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<p>yeah, it was a tiny amount for me..I googled and googled thinking it couldn't be the small amount of caffeine but then soon discovered that a small percentage of babies are hypersensitive to even small amounts. I wouldn't rule it out!</p>
 

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<p>Just a quick post to say that waking every 20-30 minutes at night sounds like a food sensitivity. You said you eliminated dairy, but what about soy? A large percentage of those with dairy sensitivities are also sensitive to soy. Soy is in cough drops, prenatal vitamins, store bought breads, meats, fruit bars, etc. It is in EVERYTHING! Also, there is tons of hidden dairy, like in lunch meats, etc. So, maybe redouble your efforts to limit dairy and consider eliminating soy. From there, it could always be another food sensitivity.</p>
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<p>My DS1 was exactly like you describe. He had a dairy sensitivity, but I never did a good job eliminating everything, especially soy. I only realize that now that DS2 is the same way, but I have been meticulous about eliminating all soy and dairy. DS2 will sleep 3 hour stretches at night at 10 weeks.</p>
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<p>Good luck!!</p>
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>AutumnAir</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1282530/wth-am-i-doing-wrong#post_16085444"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div class="quote-block">I like the idea of taking shifts with DH and getting some earplugs - but I'm useless at pumping.  I just can't let down for the pump at all.  I pumped for 20 minutes at a time 3 times yesterday and only got 2.5 oz total - which really isn't enough to tide her over for 5-6 hours, not to mention how difficult it is to find an hour in the day to sit and pump with a little manual pump.  (I just cannot afford a super-duper pump)  I might persist with the pumping, at least a bit though, because part of me is now wondering whether I might have low supply, and if she's waking so often out of actual hunger?</div>
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<p>If you have a local craigslist or freecycle yahoo! group, maybe you can get a decent electric pump from there for less than new and just get a new flange, bottle, tubing, etc. Also, you might need a different size flange than what you have on the pump - sometimes if it's too big or too small, it can dramatically decrease the effectiveness of pumping. Also, see if your insurance will pay for it (maybe with a doctor's prescription if it's not a covered cost?), and if you are eligible for WIC, I think that will sometimes help with pump costs. And try eating lots of oatmeal, drink mother's milk tea, take fenugreek, and/or have some stout beer with lots of hops in it. They are all good for increasing milk supply. I'll keep my fingers crossed that the magic of time will also improve things for you and her.</p>
 

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<p>My #1 was not a good sleeper.  I really love cosleeping - nothing beats the feeling of falling asleep with a baby - but I eventually realized that it was not working for us.  I'm a light sleeper, so every grunt, groan, movement on his part woke me up, got me restless, so I woke him up.  So we slept for about 1 hours at a time each time.  He also wanted to nurse back to sleep each time but it was only a sip or two so he would wake up again hungry.  Nightmare.</p>
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<p>I left him with MIL for one night - she gave him a big old bottle of milk - he pounded it and slept through the night.  As in 11 hours straight!  The most I had gotten him to sleep at one stretch before that was three hours.  </p>
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<p>So, with sadness, he got the boot and moved into his crib.  </p>
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<p>I think it was the combo of drinking a huge amount all at once to fill his belly, and not cosleeping, that made it happen.</p>
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<p>So something to try.  </p>
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<p>Another thing I did - when he was sleeping so poorly - I went to bed when he did.  There were nights I was in bed at 8 PM.  It was the only way to save my sanity because I also need lots of sleep.  I got no time with my husband, and very little down time of my own, but the sleep was worth it.  </p>
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<p>Good luck!</p>
 
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