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I was in Blockbuster last night trying to rent a few Wii games.<br><br>
Two men were in there with one baby boy. About 11-14 months I think. His Dad was holding him.<br><br>
He was whining the whole time. Just a quiet whimpering whine, not a lound pulling on dad's arm whine.<br><br>
The other man said "Is he always like this?"<br><br>
Dad said "His mom is making him a wuss. She caters to every single sound he makes. Ive about had it".<br><br>
(I kinda gasped when he said "wuss")<br><br>
Dad said "You don't like wuss?"<br><br>
Me: "Well not really. He's going to understand that soon."<br><br>
Dad: "No he won't I'm going to toughen him up before he's old enough to understand it."<br><br>
Then he held the boy up over his head a little and looked at him in the eye with a fake "evil eye" and said..<br><br>
"Dad doesn't want a wussy boy does he?" <--the baby liked this, and he started laughing.<br><br>
Is this a typical attitude? Is it only an attitude we have for boys? Is it just "tough guys" who want a tough kid?
 

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Well, my husband is 6'6 300lbs, fully sleeved in tattoos, and has been arrested more times than I can count on both hands for fighting when he was young. I guess you could say hes the stereotypical tough guy. *by the way, we got married when we were 20 and have been married for 7 years next month, and he's never been in a fight since I've known him so he's not mean and scary!!**<br>
He has never ever said anything like that to our sons.<br><br>
My aunts husband however, is the opposite. Very straight laced guy but is HORRIFIED of his sons being "weak". when his 18 month old was afraid of dogs he forced him to like them by holding him over dogs and making him be around them. Of course he's still afraid of them. When our boys were swinging and my son was having fun but his was scared, he pushed him higher and higher until he liked it. When his older son had no interest in sports and just wanted to color and draw, he took his paints away and made him play sports.<br><br>
I do have to say that all my husbands friends that were violent before they had kids, have done prison time, ride motorcycles all that "tough" stuff are completely awesome with their sons. Very gentle and not at all interested in proving their manhood thru their children. We get a lot of people who say that my sons will get made fun of as being weak for not eating meat and it just cracks me up. If all you have to prove your a man is going to walmart and picking out steak to eat, you have issues <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">
 

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Actually, I've kinda of got the same story.<br><br>
My DH and my Dad are both very "manly" guys.<br><br>
And both have stayed home with kids. And cook. etc.<br><br>
Really, I think that men who are so concerned about boys being weak or like girls, or whatever other stupid thing....I think those men themselves are weak and afraid. They project it onto their sons.<br><br>
I know that when I meet men who act like that my very first instinct is always that they are weak.
 

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My husband doesn't fall into "tough guy" or "wuss" although in and among his family and extended family--he is certainly considered the sucker in a girly way because he doesn't do some of the hot-headed, stupid crap the rest of them do. Plus, he's intelligent, doesn't really argue much, doesn't love going to girly clubs (in fact, in 12 years he may have gone 2-3 times for bachelor parties and that's it), etc. You get the picture. He's not a "manly man" to the people he knows.<br><br>
But he also has no desire to toughen up our son, either. Seriously--I don't think those kinds of words could ever cross his lips. Comments that allude to our son toughening up or "manning up" have been made by the people we're surrounded by; but a few years ago dh cut his family off (for lots of reasons) and since then they know that if something pisses us off and they don't knock it off--they're out. So it's not really an issue.<br><br>
I CAN say it is definitely more significant among the insecure.
 

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my is in neither category. he was more of the "don't make me get into a fight" but could kinda hold his own if it happened. hes not into sports or bench pressing or anything like that. but hes also a 6'2 200 lb man. no tat's but a shaved head. for the most part there is no pushing either way... (although he was VERY upset when my sis painted ds nails both feet and hands) <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue"> luckily ds LOVES cars so thats the only thing dh would even "worry" about.<br><br>
for the short answer i think that it IS inappropriate for a fatger to push something a child is fearful off. although i do think that faceing a fear is a good thing, pushing a fear onto a young child without consent is just mean, rude, and insensative. WE adults are afraid of big lions, or elephants stampeding, no different if a large dog is barking at a toddler.
 

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I also forgot to add that DH can knit, taught me how to use my sewing machine and is great at cooking. It was funny because he went to get my breast pump from the rental place and walked in saying "I need a breast pump!" and the guy said most guys are super embarrassed to buy them. He was just confused by that.
 

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We bought the book <i>The Sissy Duckling</i> because I'm pretty focused on my kids growing up in a queer aware and friendly environment. My husband couldn't figure out what about the book made it queer oriented and got angry that boys doing "girl" stuff is associated with sexuality. He doesn't understand why cooking or sewing or art is even vaguely gendered and intends to encourage boys in that direction the same way he will teach our daughter the "boy" stuff.<br><br>
My husband is incredibly secure in his masculinity so sees no point in trying to prove anything. I brought the power tools into this relationship. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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My Dh is a fairly "manly" guy, he hunts, fishes, plays sports, and such did not bat an eye when on of our sons wanted a Powder Puff girls doll or when the other wanted a barbie. He just doesnt seem to worry about such stuff. Now my brother on the other hand is a whole other story.
 

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My DH is very aware of these kind of issues, he was made fun of and teased a lot by his older brothers growing up for being a "wuss". He still tends to fall in the trap of saying "no way will our boy..." but is working on getting by these biases.
 

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That kind of thing makes me so so sad and angry! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry"><br><br>
I have heard it too, but more with slightly older boys. A friend of Dd's has a younger brother around 6 or so, and we've heard his parents/etc say pretty awful things when he cries, expresses fear or a tender emotion, is wanting some contact or reassurance.<br><br><i>"What are you a girl now? Do you need a dress or something?"<br>
"Be a man! Be tough!"</i><br><br>
It's just so damaging and warped.
 

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I hate that attitude.<br><br>
Unfortunately, my DH is the same way. Constantly harping on me not to do anything to make our DS a mama's boy. I just try to gently educate him that if our DS cries, shows emotion, wants to play with a doll, etc. that he is not a sissy.<br><br>
These type of scenarios just make me feel bad for men in our culture who feel pressured to never show any emotions except for anger/agression.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>UnschoolnMa</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11358076"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><br><i>"What are you a girl now? Do you need a dress or something?"<br>
"Be a man! Be tough!"</i><br><br>
It's just so damaging and warped.</div>
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That one in particular pisses me off because it also infers that being a girl is <i>less than,</i> or <i>inferior to</i> being a boy. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:<br><br>
ITA, it seems to men who are most afraid of being 'wussy' are the weakest of all.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>LokiPuck</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11366425"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I hate that attitude.<br><br>
Unfortunately, my DH is the same way. Constantly harping on me not to do anything to make our DS a mama's boy. I just try to gently educate him that if our DS cries, shows emotion, wants to play with a doll, etc. that he is not a sissy.<br><br>
These type of scenarios just make me feel bad for men in our culture who feel pressured to never show any emotions except for anger/agression.</div>
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<span>Man I'd have an awfully hard time resisting the temptation to give Dh a dose of his own attitude in that position. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
So the next time he expresses emotion... be it a loving moment or gesture toward you, his mom, his children or some kind of worry he expresses about finances, his job, health, etc I might ask if he feels like he's less of a man at that moment for sharing these very normal feelings.</span>
 

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My dh is a choir director, pianist, composer, church organist, football coach (Go D-Line!), weightlifter, pilot...he cried at the births of his babies and yells at the tv while watching football...so is he "manly" or a "wuss"? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue"><br><br>
He would *never* say anything like that to either of our boys.
 

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Yeah, it's an insecurity thing.<br><br>
And I agree with rightkindofme's husband that it makes no sense to associate people's interests with their sexuality.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>UnschoolnMa</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11366866"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><span>\ I might ask if he feels like he's less of a man at that moment for sharing these very normal feelings.</span></div>
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You're nice.<br><br>
I'd say "<b>SUCK IT UP CRYER!</b>"
 

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I have to say to, as far as being "girlie" being a bad thing...<br><br>
I have 11 tattoos and have never cried during any of them, and they're big! But I've seen many a tough guy cry during tattoos. So who says we're not tough? whats wrong with being girlie? Nothing I say!
 

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The book <i>Real Boys</i> really delves into this whole issue. It's a great read, if you have boys, or are just married to someone who was once a boy!
 

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I hate that attitude.<br><br>
My friend's boyfriend thinks my ds1 is a "Mama's Boy." It's because he doesn't like it when this guy he doesn't see that often comes over and tries to pick him up and stuff. I have stepped in and told him to back off a few times.<br><br>
We told ds he could have this tiny dirtbike with training wheels as soon as he would wear a helmet. He still won't try one on (he's only 3). I guess this is more evidence to the boyfriend that we're making him soft. He has told her he thinks it's my parenting that has made him "this way."<br><br>
I don't know why it bothers me, but it does. What's scary is that they have a baby boy now.
 
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