xp: Respecting boundaries and personal space – or Stop Sucking My Nose!

Tigerle · Nov 14, 2010

I almost put this under special needs parenting as maybe a sensory issue, but that’s probably exaggerating. But it doesnt’t feel “generic” enough to me for childhood years...so I am crossposting in Gentle Discipline because I want this to STOP! And in Parenting the Gifted Child, because it’s the place where people recommended “The Active Alert Child”, the first book I came across that resonated with me about this issue, so maybe there are more people who have experienced this. 
 
Before I begin: I have very low needs for personal space myself, particularly with my children. I can cuddle and hug and kiss all day, and I genuinely do not mind sleeping with a little body pressed next to me, in fact it relaxes me.
 
DS however has ways of invading my boundaries that are driving me crazy, and it’s been going on for years, sometimes better, sometimes worse. He seems obsessed with my hair, so whenever he gets near it he appears almost to be compelled to stroke, grab, twist, pull, yank...it always escalates. I cannot help him with shoes or dress without his grabbing some strands, or leaning on my head or pressing a kiss on top of it. Bedtimes are worst because cuddling, for him, means touching my hair. When he’s in a good place it’s just stroking and going to sleep holding it. Worse means twisting, mouthing, chewing, biting down and pulling...(he does this with toothbrush bristles as well, and with the whiskers of his stuffed tiger - I hear they have machines at this toy factory simulating pulling forces to make sure no kids could ever pull out those whiskers, but he managed) or grinding his head against mine .When he was stressed at my going back to work full time two years ago, we had real fights at bedtimes and I had to hold him with my arms locked around him to get him to go to sleep – threatening to leave the room (and send in DH, of course) just seemed to make matters worse. Having my hair yanked or having pressure put on top of my head does not just hurt my scalp, it can hurt my neck badly beause I have had spine surgery, and he has sent me into headaches and backaches bad enough to warrant a PT appointment more than once. Which makes me tense up when he moves in certain way to cuddle which makes matters worse, I am sure. These days I feel he is old enough to deal with my threatening to leave the room and follow up after ample warnings, and things did get better at night, but I wish I were able to buckle him in without having my hair batted at.
 
He’s started a new one now, and it drives me so crazy I had to leave the room tonight again – which upsets me because I treasure that half-hour or so of connection with the baby asleep. I tell him he has to whisper so as not to wake up the baby (we were going to put her to sleep somewhere else but he wanted her to go to sleep with him, and we happily complied) so he moves closer and closer into my face until his lips touch the tip of my nose. Then he starts mouthing it. When I tell him to stop he starts pressing kisses on it. It may sound cute but it’s actually annoying as heck. I felt bad for leaving, but staying and hissing at him to stop every other minute is no good option either, and it usually ends up waking the baby...
 
Oh, and I’ve recently seen him give little hugs or “drive-by” strokings to kids he likes, or pressing a quick kiss onto their bodies somewhere, which is new. It hasn’t gotten him into trouble yet as most preschoolers seem to be pretty oblivious to this but I expect it will.
 
I can’t deal with this blurring of affection and aggression. Help!

dogretro · Nov 15, 2010

To me, this really does sound like sensory seeking behaviour. If he acts like he is compelled to touch your hair, he probably is compelled to touch your hair. The biggest sign to me is that he is now branching out to touch other kids. Kids who are sensory seekers will purposely bump into or touch other kids & people all the time to get that extra. IDK about where you live, but where I live kids can get free in-home evaluations done by the county for all sorts of issues. DD1 had one done for a stuttering problem (went away on its own) and is about to undergo another one for sensory problems related to noise sensitivity (which, for her, is also an anxiety problem). They are really easy & she enjoyed the first one. I would call your pediatrician and ask for a referral for a sensory evaluation. {hugs}

Tigerle · Nov 15, 2010

thank you for your thoughts. Yes, it is the branching out to others that is making me wonder, too - so far it seemed to be a specific problem with me and very much related to whatever was going on in our relationship. but i suppose that that's no reason not to suspect strong sensory seeking tendencies being a part of this. I've got all the books and try to implement a sensory diet at home, but have balked at having evals or interventions so far - it hasn't interfered with his functioning yet, just our bedtimes. though bedtimes are a serious part of your life when you're four, right? Another poster suggested replacement activities and I'll offer more of the backrubs he loves, and will try to reconnect more during the day. We are just so busy these days, it's crazy, and I thought SAHM for a while after DD was born would relax me :rolleyes
And if it doesn't get better we'll have an evaluation. Problem is they love him at the peds' and think he's great and I have a feeling they think i'm overpatologizing things when I bring up stuff they can't see...

ssh · Nov 15, 2010

You can contact early intervention directly and they will evaluate your DS. If he has sensory needs and qualifies for early intervention you will be given strategies for meeting those needs and will probably have a therapist of some kind coming to your house and doing play therapy with him to also address his needs. So it usually does get better after an evaluation because things are being addressed.

Tigerle · Nov 17, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by ssh <a href="/community/forum/thread/1279321/xp-respecting-boundaries-and-personal-space-or-stop-sucking-my-nose#post_16047126"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a> You can contact early intervention directly and they will evaluate your DS. If he has sensory needs and qualifies for early intervention you will be given strategies for meeting those needs and will probably have a therapist of some kind coming to your house and doing play therapy with him to also address his needs. So it usually does get better after an evaluation because things are being addressed.
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I live in Europe so I do need a ped visit first and an OT visit after. (Sorry, I keep trying to get my profile to show my location but so far it's not working. Siggy's been screwed up ever since the launch, too...). I've been given a number of sensory strategies (and fish oil!) to try out and plan to give us till the New Year before I talk to the ped. i think my stress leve plays into how well DS is regulating himself too, kwim?
Thank you, it has been really helpful to understand better what this is about!
 
Ha, tried again and it's showing now! Now for the siggy...

lizajane30 · Nov 18, 2010

I don't know all that much about sensory-seeking stuff--although I suspect my son has some of that going on in conjunction with ADD--but I wanted to say that we've seen dramatic results with a double dose of fish oil (we use Nordic Naturals Children's DHA) for our son. When he doesn't have his "fish balls" as he calls them, we see a noticeable rise in his need for rough physical play, and in his seemingly random violent interactions with his younger sister.
 
Good luck.

Tigerle · Nov 20, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by lizajane30 <a href="/community/forum/thread/1279321/xp-respecting-boundaries-and-personal-space-or-stop-sucking-my-nose#post_16055026"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a> I don't know all that much about sensory-seeking stuff--although I suspect my son has some of that going on in conjunction with ADD--but I wanted to say that we've seen dramatic results with a double dose of fish oil (we use Nordic Naturals Children's DHA) for our son. When he doesn't have his "fish balls" as he calls them, we see a noticeable rise in his need for rough physical play, and in his seemingly random violent interactions with his younger sister.
 
Good luck.
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Thank you, that is encouraging! We started three days ago (with NN CLO), I have to say things are better - though it's always off and on anyway. Do you know of a good web place to read up about dosages? So far we do half a teaspoon for DS and 1 Teaspoon for us grownups (I'm breastfeeding).

lizajane30 · Nov 20, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Tigerle <a href="/community/forum/thread/1279321/xp-respecting-boundaries-and-personal-space-or-stop-sucking-my-nose#post_16060926"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> <div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by lizajane30 <a href="/community/forum/thread/1279321/xp-respecting-boundaries-and-personal-space-or-stop-sucking-my-nose#post_16055026"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> I don't know all that much about sensory-seeking stuff--although I suspect my son has some of that going on in conjunction with ADD--but I wanted to say that we've seen dramatic results with a double dose of fish oil (we use Nordic Naturals Children's DHA) for our son. When he doesn't have his "fish balls" as he calls them, we see a noticeable rise in his need for rough physical play, and in his seemingly random violent interactions with his younger sister.
 
Good luck.
</div>
</div>
 
Thank you, that is encouraging! We started three days ago (with NN CLO), I have to say things are better - though it's always off and on anyway. Do you know of a good web place to read up about dosages? So far we do half a teaspoon for DS and 1 Teaspoon for us grownups (I'm breastfeeding). 
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So, I'm not an authority on this...but as far as I can tell, overdosage isn't so much of an issue with fish oil. We give our 4.5yo DS 2-3x the dosage on the package and it helps. Our ped okayed this dose for him. Our 2yo DD gets 1.5x the package dose. (This translates to 8-12 gels for DS and 6 for DD using NN Children's DHA) My kids don't like the liquid and it was too messy for us.

Tigerle · Nov 26, 2010

thank you!
What I am a bit worried about is the amount of vitamin D and A he'd be getting from the CLO (I live in europe and can't seem to get the children's capsules and don't know if he'd swallow them). So far I haven't had much luck with finding dosage advice in the web and highly doubt that our ped is trained in this. However, my mom, who wasn't aware we were trying this, mentioned DS seemed much calmer and better able to listen when she read to him after just three days of half a teaspoon! So it's either a fluke or a miracle cure...

MrsBone · Nov 26, 2010

check out: <a href="http://rowdiness.westonaprice.org/cod-liver-oil/238-cod-liver-oil-basics.html" target="_blank">http://rowdiness.westonaprice.org/cod-liver-oil/238-cod-liver-oil-basics.html</a>
 
about vitamin D and CLO. It's a very informative website!
 
Also, just read about Dr. Weston A Price on his site.

Tigerle · Nov 26, 2010

Super-interesting website, thank you!

xp: Respecting boundaries and personal space – or Stop Sucking My Nose!

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