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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
File this one under You-Can't-Make-This-Up.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/h...kids-immunisation-status-20160122-gmbtgj.html

First, TPTB expressed indignant surprise when they learned that ebil anti-baksers, once barred from daycare, were coming up with their own daycare.

Now, they're amazed that the national hate campaign is getting people to keep mum about their vax decisions.

"This is a huge problem if Australia-wide we've got a group of people choosing not to vaccinate their children and they're not telling people. We need to stop vilifying these people so they are able to identify themselves so we don't put people who do choose to vaccinate at risk."

Say, maybe this national hate campaign wasn't a good idea, after all. If we can at least pretend to be nice, we can smoke 'em outta their holes. :rolleyes
 

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We need to stop vilifying these people so they are able to identify themselves
This reminds me, in a way, of St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre. Note the highlighted portion(s) (i.e. Christians letting their guard down):
August 24, 1572, was the date of the infamous St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre in France. On that day, over 400 years ago, began one of the most horrifying holocausts in history. The glorious Reformation, begun in Germany on October 31, 1517, had spread to France—and was joyfully received. A great change had come over the people as industry and learning began to flourish, and so rapidly did the Truth spread that over a third of the population embraced the Reformed Christian Faith.

However, alarm bells began to ring at the Vatican! France was her eldest daughter and main pillar—the chief source of money and power. . . . King Pepin of the Franks (the father of Charlemagne) had given the Papal States to the Pope almost 1000 years earlier. Almost half the real estate in the country was owned by the clergy.

Meanwhile, back in Paris, the King of France and his Court spent their time drinking, reveling and carousing. The Court spiritual adviser—a Jesuit priest— urged them to massacre the Protestants—as penance for their many sins! To catch the Christians off-guard every token of peace, friendship, and ecumenical good will was offered.

Suddenly—and without warning—the devilish work commenced. Beginning at Paris, the French soldiers and the Roman Catholic clergy fell upon the unarmed people, and blood flowed like a river throughout the entire country. Men, women, and children fell in heaps before the mobs and the bloodthirsty troops. In one week, almost 100,100 Protestants perished.
http://www.reformation.org/bart.html
 

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Australian officials are a special kind of something.

Apparently we need to walk around with big flashing signs over our heads because losing tax benefits, being barred from childcare and kindergarten, and being vilified online wasn't enough.

Seriously though, who DOES tell their friends and/or the public at large about their kids' vaccination status? I've never asked this of any of the parents of my kids' school friends. It's none of my business. Likewise, would I walk up to their parents and ask if they're UTD on their boosters? Or if they're on antidepressants? Blood pressure meds? Heck, they should just give me a print out of medical records for their whole family if my kids are going to hang at their place after school.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Being of Huguenot ancestry, I'm aware of that grisly massacre :(

But take comfort that you now have company. The same batshittery is going on in the U.S. http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dalla...our-kids-then-i-should-know-who-you-are.html/

At least a commenter brilliantly called out the author's McCarthyism:

"You want freedom not to vaccinate your kids? Then I should know who you are" I'll see your vaccines question and will raise you a question of my own... "You want freedom to have sex with your partner without protection? Then I should know who you are as well..."
How about this: You want to use your public office to push vaccines but insist on making your own medical decisions for your family? Then I should know who you are.
 

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Gosh, I'm feeling paranoid! I wonder why?
 
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Only a few decades ago it started with the Jews being discriminated against regarding employment.

Having to wear a star to identify them as Jews.

Might non-vaxxers one day be required to wear something like this:


Already there is discrimination against non-vaxxers regarding access to school. Also in the workplace, e.g. nurses and daycare workers.
As we know in Australia they are now being discriminated against regarding benefits that everyone else can get but they can't because they are the 'vermin' who don't vaccinate. (Term vermin was applied to the Jews in Nazi Europe).
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Only a few decades ago it started with the Jews being discriminated against regarding employment.

Having to wear a star to identify them as Jews.

Might non-vaxxers one day be required to wear something like this:


Already there is discrimination against non-vaxxers regarding access to school. Also in the workplace, e.g. nurses and daycare workers.
As we know in Australia they are now being discriminated against regarding benefits that everyone else can get but they can't because they are the 'vermin' who don't vaccinate. (Term vermin was applied to the Jews in Nazi Europe).
Fortunately, I don't see the vax thing leading down the slippery slope of getting holed up in concentration camps and gassed in chambers. None of this hate campaign comes remotely close to the true Shoah. But I definitely see the resemblance to Cold War-era McCarthyism.
 

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Fortunately, I don't see the vax thing leading down the slippery slope of getting holed up in concentration camps and gassed in chambers. None of this hate campaign comes remotely close to the true Shoah. But I definitely see the resemblance to Cold War-era McCarthyism.
Not yet. Probably not ever....although I can see non-vaxxers rounded up and put in a "camp" somewhere if an epidemic broke out and we refused to vaccinate.

I read a book a few years back - the Midwife of Venice. She was a Jewish midwife and she had to live in the Jewish ghetto. There were curfews and she could only attend Jewish women. While the work was fiction, I am going to make a broad assumption that things like"Jewish ghetto" were based on facts. The book took place in the 1400's. The roots of anti-Sematicism in Europe seemed quite deep.

I don't think we are going to get that far with this. Most grievous issues of discrimination involve religion and race.

I think a bunch of white folks in a developed country being mad at another bunch of white folks in the same or another developed country for making a different choice than them is not going to cut it. Most pro-vaxxers are only one significant vaccine reaction away from stepping a toe into our dark pool anyways, and they know it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Not yet. Probably not ever....although I can see non-vaxxers rounded up and put in a "camp" somewhere if an epidemic broke out and we refused to vaccinate.
When I ask myself what is the worst place where the hate campaign could end up, it's definitely not with "camps," not with all of the freaking out over "clusters" and "pockets."

The absolute worst, almost fictional dystopian scenario that I can envision is the formation a separate caste of Untouchables who are unable to attain education or jobs. By ironic default, however, I suppose that they'd end up living in the same ghettos. ETA: If Dorit gets her way, they'll have to stay out of parks and libraries, as well.

Most pro-vaxxers are only one significant vaccine reaction away from stepping a toe into our dark pool anyways, and they know it.
Very true.
 

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Not yet. Probably not ever....although I can see non-vaxxers rounded up and put in a "camp" somewhere if an epidemic broke out and we refused to vaccinate.
Then once in the camp then the non-vaxxers might never be freed again, i.e. discover that they are in a gulag for the rest of their life (however long or short the establishment might allow). Similar to the case of Typhoid Mary. The inmates might be regarded as 'vermin' spreading disease therefore kept in the camp to protect the rest of society.
 

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When I ask myself what is the worst place where the hate campaign could end up, it's definitely not with "camps," not with all of the freaking out over "clusters" and "pockets."

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Well, we would be the only people in the camps, save for a few well vaxxed officials in Hazmat suits. People freak out over clusters because they worry about the vaxxed getting stuff.

Oh, the medically exempt would not be in the camps, of course, becausee it is not their choice to be unvaxxed. They can't be punished! They medically exempt cannot catch and spread disease - dontchaknow? (Non-responders, adults who are not up to date and people whose immunity has waned before their next official visit are also off the hook...because, you know, they did their part. Their non-immunity is irrelevant)
 
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I don't think the librarians of America would go along with Dorit's plan. How are we to share pro-vaccine propaganda materials if our target audience cannot access the library :) ?
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
I don't think the librarians of America would go along with Dorit's plan. How are we to share pro-vaccine propaganda materials if our target audience cannot access the library :) ?
How are pediatricians to share them if they keep booting disobedient parents from their practices? :shrug

Vax fanaticism, as this thread demonstrates, is based on raging hysterical emotions, not rational forethought that considers unintended consequences.
 

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How are pediatricians to share them if they keep booting disobedient parents from their practices? :shrug

Vax fanaticism, as this thread demonstrates, is based on raging hysterical emotions, not rational forethought that consider unintended consequences.
I really don't think that librarians will buy into the idea that the vaccine program is more important than access to public libraries. Few of us are vaccine fanatics on that level.

I also doubt that the majority of doctors kick patients out of their practice for not complying with all vaccines. That is still mostly pediatricans and not all of them.

Vaccine fanatics are very noisy, but I think they are a fairly small group. Vaccine supporters are a much larger group, but they aren't fanatical enough to support all the demands of the fanatics.

So, my sense is that the majority of librarians are vaccine supporters, but they wouldn't see checking vaccine status as part of their job as gatekeepers.

In the real world, librarians welcome homeless folks, drug users, criminals, bores, noisy children, people with runny noses and loud coughs and even people with muddy boots who leave dirty tracks on the floor.

People have to do something really really awful to be kicked out of the library. A lack of vaccines won't do it.

I'll admit that this isn't all about idealism, however. A major factor is statistics. We have to justify the cost of running a library and one way to do it is to show that the library gets used. Warm bodies in the door add up.
 

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The ABC has picked up the story now...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-...ir-decision-amplifying-risk-to-others/7112416

Just when I thought it couldn't get any better...

Dr Parnis said keeping a decision to not vaccinate a child a secret was dangerous.

"There is a risk irrespective of whether they disclose it or not. But that risk could be amplified if they gain access to places where they shouldn't on the basis of not telling the truth — that might be a school," he said.
There is no law on mandatory vaccination for school entry. You can enrol with a CO. I think his choice of words is telling..."places where they shouldn't be..." I've talked about this with a non-vaccinating friend here and she thinks that the policy will be changed within a couple of years to mandate vaccines for school entry.

Interesting remarks on the risks to herd immunity and the need to "out" the non-vaccinating parents in light of the article sent to me (thanks, my friend :thumb) from this past October about the pertussis cases in NSW. Herd immunity?

http://www.smh.com.au/national/heal...sw-highest-in-four-years-20151015-gkakmd.html

"Even if you have the disease, your immunity wears off after five to 10 years and it's even quicker after vaccination," she said. "It's kind of like the opposite of herd immunity ..."
At least some paeds seem to cop on about the net result of the hardline attitudes:

University of Sydney paediatrics expert Professor Nicholas Wood said promoting shame among parents who did not vaccinate was not an effective tactic to improve vaccination rates.

"Driving all to feel shamed is not the ideal way to promote vaccine uptake," Associate Professor Wood, who is also from The Children's Hospital at Westmead, told the ABC.
 

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Promoting hatred of non-conformists will not result in a healthy, harmonious social life, either.
 

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How are pediatricians to share them if they keep booting disobedient parents from their practices? :shrug
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Please leave and don't come back...but before you do, I insist you take these pamphlets.....
 

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Wow i do not think us wearing a branded non vax patch on our arms is going to do anything other than make us and our children targets. I still cannot believe how bad this vaccine movement has gotten.
 
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