[Panserbjorne]

I am having a serious battle with yeast. It is not just a little candida...it is an all-out systemic yeast infection. I am experiencing horrible gastro-intestinal upsets, vaginal yeast infections, anxiety, fatigue as well as having it spread to skin. I am at the end of my rope. I see a naturopath to cope with it, but nothing seems to work. For YEARS this has been a problem. I was using something the doc gave me called biocidin, which was great, but when I got pregnant I had to discontinue. I still do a ton of raw garlic, probiotics and grapefruitseed extract as well as an anti-candida diet, but apparently my yeast loves me and never ever wants to leave. Can anyone suggest something else? It has really interrupted my normal functions for far too long already. Is it possible that i have such a bad case I can't clear it up? Perish the thought... Any help would be appreciated.

 

[hvl25]

have you cut out all sugar/dairy?

 

[MAMA-J]

Elisabeth<br><br>
I feel so bad for you. I had seriuos yeast problems after both my births and during nursing and still battle it when I don't watch my diet.<br>
It seems like you are doing everything. grapefruit seed extract was a real miracle worker for me. Are you sure there isn't something you are missing in your diet??? I had to cut out breads, pastas, tomatoes, anything baked, anything refined, vinegar, alcohol, fruit in addition to all the obvious stuff.<br>
Any medications you might be on?<br><br>
I am racking my brain here.....<br>
Have you tried any homeopathy or accupressure?<br><br>
I have also read that emotional healing may be needed with this...?<br>
stress, negativity, frustration, anger (even in something major in your past) can severely suppress the immune system.<br><br>
GOOD LUCK -- let us know if you find anything that works.

 

[Panserbjorne]

I have cut everything...including whole grains as I am not sure if I could possibly be allergic at this point. No fruit or fruit juices, no dairy, no sugar (not even stevia) no yeast, no vinegar no nightshade veggies, no mushrooms blah blah blah. Nothing seems to help.<br><br>
Elisabeth

 

[goodpapa]

....what kind and how much probiotics. Are they in the refrigerated section.<br><br>
I cured my wife's miscarriages-- continuous infections because we weren't aware how powerful the antibiotics in our food are--- with a probiotic yogurt.<br><br>
The important part was taking the plunger that they gave us for "inserting" the antibiotic cream, filling it with yogurt and putting the natural flora back in "there."<br><br>
You need to get the best probiotics and really "blast" your system with them. Try to culture them as yogurt.<br><br>
Here's a starter:<br><br><a href="http://jarrow.com/products/JarroDophilusfos.htm" target="_blank">http://jarrow.com/products/JarroDophilusfos.htm</a><br><br><br>
Ray

 

[Yin Yang]

I would try colon hydrotherapy!! It's amazing thing!! Plus these products (those worked for my yeast infectinos) Cytosan and Drugs Imun from Energy company at <a href="http://www.energy.sk" target="_blank">www.energy.sk</a><br><br>
And also this: <a href="http://www.hmedicine.com/shopping/product/1090/b_king%20bio" target="_blank">http://www.hmedicine.com/shopping/pr...0/b_king%20bio</a><br><br>
Good luck! yeast isn't fun <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry">

 

[Panserbjorne]

Thanks for the suggestions...<br>
I have done colonic hydrotherapy, it's how I first learned that I had yeast problems. It is a big help, but I still can't seem to get the yeast under control. Oh well, maybe I'm just destined to live with yeast. Blech.<br><br>
Elisabeth

 

[allys jill]

wow, if it has spread systemically that means that you likely have a leaky gut. from the sound of your post you probably are quite aware of that, though? well, the best i can do is to refer you to this book "restoring your digestive health". i think it is fantastic and if i were experiencing your problem, i'd follow this program.

 

[goodpapa]

...actually I am curious about the book.<br><br>
My understanding of "leaky gut" is an absence of the gut flora that are supposed to be in our GI tract to protect the epithelial cells from antigens, undigested food, etc.<br><br>
Did the book say that the cells themselves can be damaged, perhaps, irreversibly?<br><br>
For any interested I have extensive links about "leaky gut" and allergy issues on the Vax. forum, in my "Hope, faith and activism" thread.<br><br><br><br>
Ray

 

[Panserbjorne]

The cells CAN be damaged-irreversibly? I'm not sure. It probably depends on the extent of the damage. Also leaky gut syndrome is caused by the absence of beneficial flora. What happens in things like candida actually destroy the lining of your gut. The subsequent holes that are formed are the real problem. That is what allows food into your bloodstream increasing the likelihood of food allergies. The bad bacteria can also damage the head of the villa in the small intestine which prohibit them from grasping the food molecules and properly digesting them.<br><br>
I hope that helps. A great source of info if you haven't found it already in the Weston A. Price foundation. The book that was mentioned, "Restoring Your Digestive Health" is actually based on his findings on primitive diets in primitive cultures. It's totally comprehensive. There's also a book by Sally Fallon called "Nourishing Traditions" that is based on the same research. It not only gives you great info on diet and moderns ailments and diseases, it's primarily a cookbook. It helps you with recipes for lacto-fermented foods, whole foods and the best ways to cook with grains and such. I found it to be incredibly helpful.<br><br>
Elisabeth

 

[goodpapa]

...ok....<br><br><br>
...so how's your yeast problem?<br><br>
Once again, how much of what type of probiotics are you using.<br><br><br>
Lactobacillus casei is especially important in repairing the small intestine.<br><br>
My experience with probiotics is that a freshly cultured bacterium-- straight out of my yogurt maker--- is alot more potent than the ones "sleeping" in the fridge, eaten with a glass of water. The former have just been born and are nestled in a mix of their metabolic products, primarily, and hence the name, lactic acid.<br><br>
It is this acid that helps to moderated the growth of bad bacteria, ie, yeast overgrowth as well as many others.<br><br><br>
"I hope that helps"?????<br><br>
I'm not the "patient" here, I'm the "healer."<br><br><br><br>
Ray

 

[Gale Force]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;"><i>Originally posted by goodpapa</i><br><b><br>
"I hope that helps"?????<br><br>
I'm not the "patient" here, I'm the "healer."<br></b></td>
</tr></table></div>
?????<br><br>
You asked a question and she answered it.

 

[Gale Force]

Elisabeth,<br><br>
It sounds like you have done an awful lot. Can you describe how long you have cut things out and what you have done to replenish your flora?<br><br>
Amanda

 

[goodpapa]

...I was picking up a vibe from you.<br><br><br>
"The cells CAN be damaged-irreversibly? I'm not sure. "<br><br><br>
Not really an answer informing beyond my current knowledge. All subsequent knowledge included.<br><br><br>
It was allys jill that appeared to have some pertinent knowledge.<br><br><br>
My original questions asked quite directly remained unanswered for some reason.<br><br><br><br><br>
I'm done here,<br><br><br>
Ray

 

[pumpkinhead]

The key here is inflammation.<br><br>
All of our guts are essentially 'leaky', but we are protected from disease, as Ray said, by our natural gut flora which interracts with our GALT (gut-associated lymphoid tissue). The cells of our intestines secrete inflammatory cytokines (hormone-like chemicals) naturally, but these can be modulated by our gut flora. In the absence of a proper gut flora, the cells of our intestines become inflammed. When this occurs, the spaces between the cells open up and allow bigger 'anitgens' to get thru into our blood streams. This causes damage to the gut wall and inflammation. It can lead to allergies as the body is not used to seeing such big particles and, thus, mounts an immune respoonse and forms antibodies against them. Basically the gut is inflamed, it cannot function properly. Probiotics are wonderful, but not great colonizers which is why we need a source by which to constantly renew our gut flora...

 

[Gale Force]

Hey thanks pumpkinhead, that's interesting.<br><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;"><i>Originally posted by goodpapa</i><br><b>...I was picking up a vibe from you.<br></b></td>
</tr></table></div>
???<br>
Sorry I made you mad Ray, that wasn't my intention. Did I give you a vibe asking about culturing? Wow. OK. Pardon my questions, I thought you might have some information for me.

 

[goodpapa]

That was perfect!!<br><br>
For about 4 months now I've had that "cytokine" word in my head from stuff I'd been reading and no time or energy to go looking for its specifics.<br><br>
Whoop, there it is!<br><br><br>
GALT-- now there's an acronym that makes a whole lot of sense--- connecting our digestive tract to our immune system directly (yes?)<br><br>
I don't remember exactly (I think I need a refresher by re-reading all the links I've posted) but those inflammatory cytokines either are or are related to IgE responses-- the allergic reaction manifestation.<br><br><br><br>
Thanks again pumpkinhead!<br><br><br><br>
Amanda...<br><br>
mad?...<br><br>
... I'm not mad... my response "I'm done here (and obviously I'm not) had more to do with the strangeness of other responses, or non-responses here, than with what you wrote.<br><br>
However... ( and the culturing questions were almost just fine)<br><br>
you responded on this forum to a different thread where I had asked for help getting the word out on probiotics and vaginal problems of all sorts. I opined that my maleness was getting in the way of the message.<br><br>
I don't think I had ever had any interactions with you previously and you finished your message saying you had had no experience with vaginal problems, I think it was yeast, but other areas in your body.<br><br>
You ultimately said, that I had no experience with these issues either.<br><br>
You were more than a little presumptuous, and I posted a link where I wrote extensively of curing my wife's miscarriages so that we could have a child.<br><br>
I have, do not and never will take that situation or story lightly.<br><br>
I don't believe I heard from you on THIS forum until the post a couple posts ago on this thread.<br><br>
Am I mad.... no.... but I did get a vibe.<br><br><br><br>
Procreate, Lactate, Disseminate!<br><br><br>
Ray

 

[Gale Force]

Hey Ray. I had to look up that thread where I gave you the vibes. LOL. I'll take advice from anyone -- man, woman, beast. I meant my post in the way I wrote it -- I can't give much advice on vaginal yeast because I haven't had any experience with it. Apparently you can even without a vagina, good for you. As I wrote it and mentioned my lack of personal experience, it struck me as funny that this was in response to a man. Of course, a male OB pulled my son out of me quite well under the circumstances even though he never had a child pulled out of himself before.<br><br>
I have nothing against men at all, but I do dislike rudeness. Your response to Elisabeth was rude.

 

[pumpkinhead]

Gale Force, <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin"> anytime.<br><br><br>
Ray,<br><br>
GALT is really cool and it does, indeed, directly connect our immune systems and our gut. There are dense aggregates of lymphoid tissue within the tissue lining of our gut walls known as' Peyers patches'. EDITED TO ADD: Peyer's patches are GALT.<br><br>
Cytokines are basically the 'hormones'or 'neurotransmittors' of the immune system. They're how individual cells communicate with one another.<br><br>
You're on the right track with your IgE assumption. Now, it's been a long time since intro immunology, so bear with me here <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">. With out going into HUGE detail, in a basic type 1 hypersensitivity response (during the first exposure) IgE binds to receptor sites on these huge immune cells known as mast cells(there's space for 2 IgE's). These 'mast cells' are filled with granules containing inflammatory chemicals (cytokines). So now you've got'primed' mast cells with big IgE molecules on 'em floating around. Upon the next exposure, these already 'primed' cells are triggered to 'degranulate' because the two IgE molecules cross-react (get their wires crossed). This basically means that they just DUMP all of these chemicals into the blood stream, and the body can't deal = anaphylaxis. Blood vessels dialate and everything gets leaky and inflammed.<br><br>
Cytokines are the neatest things and they're discovering new one's every day! They once thought that only immune cells could make them, but they've discovered that epithelial cells can make them too.<br><br>
A biggie in the gut is Interleukin-8. This little beauty tracts neutrophils to the site of infection and is responsible for a whole whack of prolems. Cells of the intestine secrete base levels of this stuff and the levels SHOOT thru the roof when a pathogen like Salmonella is encountered. Probiotics, on their own, can reduce the BASE level of IL-8 produced! This is actually part of my research, so I have seen and measured this my own self. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin"> I'm so proud <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">

 

[bebe luna]

Elisabeth,<br>
I am not sure how long you have been working on batteling the yeast issue, but it really can take a long time. I had to remain on a super strict anti-yeast diet for a year, as well as take a bunch of anti-yeast supplements, undergo colonics, acupuncture, etc before I felt really good again. The first months were hell!<br>
Sometimes diet and probiotics just is not enough! If it is a severe systemic issue, such as I had, I suggest taking some powerful anti-fungals. The ones I found my best results from were: pau d'arco (tea or tincture daily), colloidal silver (daily), grapefruit seed extract (2 x daily), oregano oil (daily for several weeks at a time), and bentonite (2-3 x a week for a few months).<br>
i think colonics are great for the first 2 months, after that I don't think they are completely necessarry. Acupuncture can helkp greatly to rid your body of toxins and yeast overgrowth, while helping strengthen your digestive system and organs.<br>
Good luck, it really can be a difficult battle!