Mothering Forum banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,405 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
<p>So, XH has decided that because there is now an official child support decree in place that he will no longer be paying for any of the kids clothes or haircuts. Since he was laid off last year, he ran up a lot of credit card debt so his finances are very tight and he's always been big on maintaining a certain lifestyle regardless of whether he could afford it or not, it was a big cause of the marriage ending. I think he's mostly doing this because I haven't agreed to let him claim both kids on his taxes because the child support amount was calculated based on each of us claiming one of them and HE wasn't willing to pay more support to get to claim both.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I haven't addressed the clothing thing since he first brought it up a couple of months ago, since I haven't needed to buy them any clothes but this is how the email about the haircut went today. When he called this morning to tell me the kids were coming back home, he demanded that I take Little Boy to get a haircut asap, though he had them ALL weekend. Little Boy only wants to get a haircut at a place on the other side of town which costs 3 times what I pay for my own haircuts at the Beauty College (oh, we still share the car insurance, though I'm thinking of kicking him off of it, since MY payments will be less than half of the premium!!) So far I have purchased all their clothing and do all of their laundry (they bring it back from his house when I notice that all their jeans are missing =P )</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Of course, the decree doesn't say exactly what each parent is supposed to cover, because they assume that parents are going to be intelligent, decent human beings! </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">
<div>
<p>        On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Robin  wrote:<br><br>
           The car insurance payment is due - $143<br><br>
           You owe me for the AAA membership - $37.50<br><br>
           plus as much as you can put towards the remaining science class<br>
           balance of $180<br><br>
           and $10 for K's haircut.<br><br>
           thanx,<br>
           R~</p>
<p> </p>
<p><br>
 >>   On 2/15/2012 1:45 PM, Dan wrote:<br><br>
        I sent you $200 for car insurance, AAA, and the rest towards<br>
        the science class.<br><br>
        You can pay for K's haircut out of the child support payment.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p><br>
>>On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Robin wrote:<br><br>
    You do realize that the child support you pay is meant to be for<br>
    the 65% of the time that you aren't responsible for them? You<br>
    still need to cover 35% of everything they need aside from medical<br>
    and school expenses. So you can take him for 4 haircuts a year or<br>
    you can pay for 35% of the haircut and gasoline it takes to get<br>
    there.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><br>
>>On 2/15/2012 8:37 PM, Dan wrote:<br><br>
No, that's not how it works.  Since you are the custodial parent most of the time, I pay you child support to cover their basic expenses like food, clothing, grooming, etc.<br><br>
I know I have paid for half their clothes, half their haircuts, and countless other expenses over the years, but I don't actually need to do that.<br><br>
If I am wrong, please point me to the part of the divorce agreement that says I am wrong.<br><br>
If you don't like this arrangement, I will HAPPILY pay for ALL of their expenses, including the ones they incur at your house, while in your custody, and subtract it from the support payments I give you.  You can invoice me, if you'd like.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><br>
>>On 2/15/2012 9:25 PM, Robin wrote:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>You pay child support to make their 2 homes equitable, it is not designed to be the only amount you ever pay for them. The amount you pay is based on the percentage of time that you have them, expecting that you will pay for everything they need for the time they are in your care.  If you don't want to split the costs of things like clothing, haircuts, etc, then I will only purchase the clothes they need for the time they are with me and you can purchase the things they need for the time they are with you. I will send them over in whatever they are wearing at the time and you can send them back in that exact outfit.  You can be responsible for all the laundry of the clothes they wear at your house and take them for haircuts whenever you think they need them.<br><br>
I happen to think that way of doing things (although it is common with many shared-custody families) is detrimental to the kids but if you are so opposed to splitting the cost of the things that I usually take care of for them entirely (though I do agree that 50/50 doesn't make sense since you only have them 35% of the time), maybe this will seem more equitable to you.</p>
<p> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,475 Posts
<p>Ugh... ya- it's ridiculous- for one- get him the hair cut when you want to- he can't demand it anymore. I am sorry he is being like this- </p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,903 Posts
<p>Unfortunately most non custodial parents view child support as all they need to pay.  I would take him off the car insurance, drop his name from AAA (and anything else he is joint on with you).  Kiddo can get a haircut at the cheap place OR wait til next weekend??  My kid gets a haircut to wherever I have a coupon, giftcard, etc.  I wouldn't make clothes, haircuts etc a hill to die on but I wouldn't be sending anything extra to dad's house either.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>No court is going to make an order for clothes, haircuts etc.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>He should have more common sense and thoughts for the kids but.... his actions sound like they have been this way for a long time.</p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
852 Posts
<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>zebra15</strong> <a href="/community/t/1345385/you-can-just-pay-for-that-out-of-child-support#post_16879007"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><p> I would take him off the car insurance, drop his name from AAA (and anything else he is joint on with you).  Kiddo can get a haircut at the cheap place OR wait til next weekend??  My kid gets a haircut to wherever I have a coupon, giftcard, etc.  I wouldn't make clothes, haircuts etc a hill to die on but I wouldn't be sending anything extra to dad's house either.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>No court is going to make an order for clothes, haircuts etc.</p>
<p> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p><br>
Yes. The out of pocket expenses usually only include health care, day care, and extracurriculars. I'm afraid clothes, haircuts and other incidentals are on your own. Believe me this has been a huge frustration for me as well. I am the one that pays the child support and I am the one that does all the haircuts, snowboots, coats, clothes, etc. It's just one of those many things that one parent can shirk if they want to and it leaves the other parent holding the bag. After lots of frustration I have just decided it's easier to just buy the stuff and not even deal with X on it at all. Fortunately his parents do occassionally buy clothes for the kids. Do your best to get cheap haircuts, thrift store and consignment store shopping, etc. And totally agree about getting your own car insurance. You don't need the additional stress in your life of having to deal with him on that.</p>
<p> </p>
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,592 Posts
<p>As much as it sucks, there's nothing you can do to make him pay for anything above child support. When I talked to my lawyer about this (ex refused to buy Owen a carseat, refuses to feed him when he's in his care, etc) the lawyer basically told me that I should just provide those things for Owen and if/when it goes to court I can show that I went "above and beyond" what would normally be expected (COME ON.... he can feed the kid if he really wanted to!). So I bought another seat for ex to keep in his car for Owen, I send food on every visit, etc. Ex pays for nothing above and beyond child support (and never has).</p>
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,213 Posts
<p>Yeah, where I live, CS is all they have to pay. CS is intended to cover all their living expenses. That includes clothes, haircuts whatever.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Though EX is getting it really easy at the moment since he doesn't even have to cover costs of things for HIS parenting time since he sees the kids at my parents house. (long story, bottom line is his place isn't safe). I LOVE when I get texts from him when he has the kids saying we are almost out of milk!!!!  Um, then pack up the kids and go pick up some!!!  Have I mentioned lately how much I hate my ex? </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Anyway... I recently took ex back to domestics to get an increase as the first order did not include daycare expenses for DS. I did get another $100 a month, but what I'm supposed to get to cover his half of daycare and living expenses is another $400/month, but since in the state of PA they will not change what he pays to his first family, my family gets capped. So right now my TWO kids in daycare are getting as much CS a month as his ONE child with NO daycare costs. Totally fair, right?  :p </p>
<p> </p>
<p>It is what it is. I'll always carry the brunt of all the costs of the children, and likely ex will always wine and think it's unfair that he has to "pay so much". Even though what he's paying doesn't even stretch to cover his half of anything past daycare, so ALL living expenses, clothes, food, medications, whatever all falls to me 100%.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>So sorry... there really is no way to fight this. You really can't hold him responsible for clothes and haircuts. He is right, it's what CS is for. *shrugs* </p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,886 Posts
<p> </p>
<p>My 14 dd's dad does buy her quite a bit of clothes.  And almost all of her make-up, nail polish, silly notebooks, etc.  However, I've always paid for her day to day stuff. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Stbxh will NOT pay for anything, not one single thing, beyond child support.  And it will ALWAYS be like this.</p>
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,309 Posts
<p>Haircuts are on your own I'm afraid. However, that does mean that you are only required to get them when YOU have the time/money, and where you want to get it done. If your ds wants his haircut at the uber expensive place, HE can earn money doing something and pay for it - until then you decide where and how much you will pay for it.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Fighting with him over stuff like this, and demanding that he pay 35% of all of your child related expenses, on top of child support, could make you look really bad if/when you end up in court over child support again.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>ETA - you are right that you are not required to send them with anything to their dads. I send clothes with my ds, but only b/c most of the clothes were purchased by his dad (I don't know how he can afford, on his puny "salary" to buy ds clothes all the time, and $50 shoes), and he sends them to my house so that ds has clothes at my place too (I also buy clothes for ds, but I'm more inclined to wash more frequently and not have a huge wardrobe that he's going to grow out of in a month or 2).</p>
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,488 Posts
<p>my understanding was that, aside from child support, each parent is responsible for the child's needs during their time with the child.  so he would provide food, clothing, etc while they are with him, not pay for a portion of those things when they are with you - which in theory would work out to him taking your son for hair cuts some of the time, but in reality if it doesn't happen that way, i don't see how you can really force the issue.  does your son get a monthly cut?  i would tell him what i'm willing to pay for a hair cut, and he can choose to get the one that costs that, or cover the difference himself, as an 11- or 12-year-old kid.  i don't think you're wrong to expect that ex would cover 1/3 of their clothes and other expenses, but that doesn't mean you can actually make that happen.  likewise, ex doesn't get to tell you when or where to get your kids' hair cut.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>i agree that you should absolutely disentangle your finance (insurance, aaa) immediately.  it will be simpler and more peaceful for you.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>regarding laundry . . . really?  he must wash his own clothes, why can't he also wash theirs?  i had this problem with ex too, where he kept asking me to send more clothes because he "didn't have any" which meant he didn't have any clean.  finally i said no, i don't have any more, you need to wash their clothes each week so that they can wear them next time.  that's how it works now - whatever they wear to daddy's, they leave there dirty the next day, and wear it home the next week.  he probably has two outfits per kid because he's accumulated a bit extra, but basically it all rotates back to my house the following week on their bodies (no packing of bags needed because they are only there one night).  just refuse to send clothes.  he must wash their clothes.</p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
297 Posts
<p>Rotten as it is, I was told by my lawyer very similar things that everyone else is saying here. The child support is to be used for all day to day expenses. I had asked about school uniforms and school related expenses and that was my answer - that these are what child support is supposed to be for.<br><br>
Bottom line though is that the men who you need to discuss this sort of thing with are also the men who tend to see this money as you (not the children) stealing from them instead of as them helping to fulfill their responsibility of providing for their own children.  I've been told by my ex that I stole upwards of 14,000 from my ex. This was marital money that I split in half equally (didn't even take into account that "my" half was going to support the me AND the kids whereas "his" half was supporting just him) and the courts agreed to it and even ordered him to pay half of some medical bills for the children that had occurred before the separation that he'd let go to collections. I only discovered them after I changed my address with the post office and I got "final notice" letters for them. I then spent the entire afternoon calling every single place that my kids and I had ever been to asking them to review all our accounts to see if there was any unpaid balances.  I explained the basics of the situation and they were very helpful and understanding. But... that afternoon came to about 1k of extra expenses - that I paid for out of pocket.  Yet he still claimed to friends, family, pastor, court etc that I had "stolen" money from him.<br><br>
Now, I have to (for my own sanity) look at the children as solely my responsibility and anything that I get from him financially or otherwise (even if it's court ordered child support) is a bonus.There's just no other way to realistically look at it.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The funny thing about it (in the ironic sense) is that I do pay all extracurricular, child care, clothing, etc expenses and he loves to swoop in and act like the proud supportive parents. I make sure that I do not conflict with his parenting time. He refuses to have appointments for the children scheduled during his parenting time.  But.... when he wants to sign the kids up for an extracurricular activity, he wants me to take the responsibility for transportation, schedule adjustments etc AND he wants me to pay for half of the registration fees/initial expenses (we haven't made it to the point of paying ongoing expenses but I assume those would be "mom's responsibility" according to him).<br><br>
When he begged the courts for us to have court ordered communication counseling and the only time for the appointments was during his parenting time (because of my work schedule and the kid's activities) he threw a fit and wanted make up time for the appointment. When my mother offered free babysitting, he said fine but he wanted make up time for any time that the kids spent with her instead of with him. And he wanted me to provide the transportation for the babysitting. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Really?</p>
<p><br>
He couldn't see why I wouldn't go for his demands.  According to him, he doesn't get as much time compared to me (because the school day is not his parenting time) and so this was only fair.  He's the type that would ask you to pay for the privilege of providing him with free babysitting!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>::boggly eyes::</p>
<p> </p>
<p>So yeah... this isn't a battle worth fighting.<br><br>
That said, you can get the hair cut when you see fit and at the location you choose. </p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,405 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
<p>I do realize how good I have it that he pays as much as he does, unfortunately, he has no idea what a deal he has with all I provide. This is more about how I really don't need to do things like send clothes for them to his house or do all their laundry but I've done it for their benefit, to have things "normal" for them and to make sure that they are cared for. I think it sucks for a kid to have belongings that are only for one of their homes so I haven't made them deal with that. We've been splitting the costs of clothes and such because I'm the one who's gone out to do it, who's paid attention to when they need something - AND it's only cost him about $100 a YEAR. He even sends back poopy underwear when the little one has an accident. He did step up his parenting a lot since the split but this is one area that he's taken no responsibility and I've allowed it because he was splitting the costs with me. He's a good dad and somehow finds the money for them to go out and buy toys at least once a month, but then gets snippy about having to provide them with anything more than he wants to.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Most of our "arrangements" are because he just moved next door and to make things easier. The AAA membership is paid for the year in January and it costs us both less to split that, but I won't be renewing for him next year. He's been telling me for a long time that he's getting his own insurance but AAA makes him do a big down payment since he'd be starting a new account with them (even though we've had our existing policy for 14 years, but it's primarily in my name) so he's put it off.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I really have no more sympathy for him since the 3 of us live on much less than he does and I am done making his life easier. I am letting him claim both kids for last year because it doesn't hurt me to do it (I'm self-employed and make so little that I'm only paying taxes on alimony) but never again.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Honesty, I'm just sick of doing favors for X all the time while he just bullies me whenever I argue about something.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Oh, the haircut is for my 7 yr old who has big trust/control issues because of the divorce and having to go to daycare before he was ready. It's not that he wants a fancy or expensive haircut (it's just a SuperCuts-type place), he just doesn't want anyone else to cut his hair except for Lupe, who's been cutting his hair since he was a toddler and who he's known since he was a tiny baby. We all used to go to her but the beauty college is way closer & cheaper so Big Kid and I are good with going there but Little Boy just can't be convinced to let a stranger touch him. I understand it but it's a pita to deal with.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
852 Posts
<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>rubelin</strong> <a href="/community/t/1345385/you-can-just-pay-for-that-out-of-child-support#post_16879487"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><p> This is more about how I really don't need to do things like send clothes for them to his house or do all their laundry but I've done it for their benefit, to have things "normal" for them and to make sure that they are cared for. I think it sucks for a kid to have belongings that are only for one of their homes so I haven't made them deal with that.</p>
</div>
</div>
<br><br><p>I think this is one of the hardest things about joint custody from the mom perspective. You try to do whatever you can to make things as easy and convenient as possible for your kids and sometimes it just burns your butt when the other parent just seems to take advantage of that and it just goes on and on.  But there's nothing you can do, because if you stop doing what you're doing it's your kids that will pay the price, not your X. This has been a huge struggle for me as well.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>IMO you can vent and complain to your friends, but really in the end you have to suck it up and just know that you are doing the right thing for your kids.</p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,535 Posts
<p>Coming from the other side of the argument because I was the one who pays CS that it is horrible! I would never expect XH to pay for everything just because he gets CS. I do thinks for dd because I love her and want to take good care of her.Now we do split a lot of this stuff. Not directly but he'll pay to her hair cut one time and I'll take her another time.</p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,405 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
<p>OK, he's really pushing this with a long email back about our agreements (all of which are standard in CA and not just something I pulled out of my ass, like splitting school costs and him paying for their health insurance. I haven't even pushed how he's supposed to have a life insurance policy to cover at least a year of child support) and saying that he isn't responsible for anything else because he pays child support</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Anyway, what it comes down to, and what I will ask my neighbor who is a fam. law attorney and helped us with the filing, is am I legally required to provide all of their clothing regardless of where they are at the time?? He's saying that my not buying EVERYTHING they need is negligent. But, to follow that logic, that would mean I have to buy all the food they eat over there, too, which is ridiculous,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I'm not answering him until I have concrete facts from a lawyer but I wanted to know your ideas about the spirit of the law, regardless of whether or not you just buy everything anyway (like Steph) because your ex is horrible.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>oh, one reason he's now fussing about this because the court order was a couple of hundred dollars a month more than what I had been allowing him to pay before the divorce was finalized, which took away his playing money. It's amazing how I now get attacked because I was kind for the first 4 years and didn't make him pay what he would have been legally required to. AND, he flat out refused to take the kids for any more hours even though it would decrease the support payments.</p>
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,592 Posts
Well, what my lawyer explained is that I, as the custodial parent, am responsible for all clothes, extra activities (soccer, art classes, etc), school costs (field trips, lunches, etc), seasonal items (coats, hats, boots, swim trunks, etc). She even went so far as to say that if push came to shove then the judge would order that Owen's carseat be shared (i pay for it but give it to ex to use on visits). Basically, all ex is responsible for is food when ds is in his care. I think it's bull shit, but i'm not the judge <img alt="wink1.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/wink1.gif"> If the child is in diapers and visits are short (48 hours or less) than the custodial parent is expected to send enough diapers for the whole visit. The custodial parent is expected to send clothes for visits. Again, I think it's bull shit. But that's just my opinion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,733 Posts
<p>Admittedly I am on the other side of the world but no, you do not need to provide everything for them! I agree with others that state CS is meant to cover all the expenses while they are at your house, but that doesn't mean you have to provide for them while they're in his care! That is ridiculous! I send my boys over to their Dad's with the clothes on their back and occasionally toys from here that they want to take there, but they always come back with them. I'm lucky in that ex agreed to pay half of their clothes, school fees, uniforms, school trips etc in our parenting order but if he hadn't I would of had to cover all those costs myself. Not that he's paid child support for a year though!</p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
297 Posts
<p>Look it up for your state and check around to find out what is the court's opinion in your specific area.  My state supposedly claims that the clothes you send them in are enough except for things that reasonably shouldn't have to be bought for each household (like winter coats). I used to also send one complete change of clothing for each child including a diaper and/or pullup depending on the age.  Then ex protested the diaper bag being sent and started refusing to take it so I just send the kids in weather appropriate clothing.  Ex still protests that the clothing I send isn't weather appropriate but that's a judgment call issue. Afterall, he's the one who claimed that sweat pants weren't appropriate for 60 degree weather because it'd be too cold for sweats.  Basically he looks for anything he can to complain about.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And, if he sends back clothing on the kids that are "his", he wants them returned laundered and folded. He send things back with the stool still in it if there's an accident.  It'd the old double standard.</p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
852 Posts
<p>Around here the expectation is that the kids will have stuff at both houses so basically they can move easily between the houses without having to pack a bag each time. I know SO many people who struggle with this. Like I said if one parent wants to be difficult this is a really good way to do it.</p>
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,287 Posts
This is making me dread spring and summer clothes shopping around the corner. Ex has never taken my son for a haircut, let alone paid for it. We don't have a formal agreement yet, but I asked him for more towards childcare and activities and he gave me half of his half and no doubt he is feeling put out by that. <img alt="eyesroll.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/eyesroll.gif"><br><br>
He sounds creepily like my ex in his emails. I'm sorry you're feeling strained and that he can't pitch in to help out a tad more.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top