Quote:

Originally Posted by amis2girls I'm hoping someone out there can help me figure this out... DD #2 just turned four. Since she was out of diapers two years ago she has not stayed dry. Her underwear is always wet. At first I thought it was a really rough time adjusting to her baby sister. I've tried every trick in the books: a timer to remind her, ignoring the accidents, picking her up and setting her on the toilet, eliminating dairy... I think she leaks all day long. Sometimes, though, she will be trying so hard to hold it in that her face turns red. If you suggest that she needs to go she denies it, and vehemently. She has come in from playing with 'the look' only to walk right past the bathroom to sit on her bedroom floor. Five minutes later she's changing her pants. She never has a good (read, 'dry') day, so I lean more towards a physical problem than a food reaction. She changes at least three times a day. I know she's embarrassed. When I try to talk to her or ask her what happens she says "I don't know" and walks away. I just took her to the ped. and she had a urine analysis, a blood draw because there were ketones in that analysis, and a renal u/s because big sister has a kidney problem and we wanted to be sure she didn't have one as well. All those tests came back normal. As far as the ped. is concerned, she's ornery and doesn't want to take the time to stop and use the bathroom. I don't think she could do this for two years just because. Insurance requires a referral to see a urologist, and I can't get the ped. to see it differently. Any ideas, and what on earth do I do about it? Many thanks.

My daughter was born September 2003, so a few months older than yours. I had the exact same problems until November 2003 - so the equvilent of about a month from now for you. At the end of October (so 49 months old) I totally gave up. Didn't remind her of wet pants, ask her to change, remind her to pee, etc. Nothing. i set a couple of ground rules (she couldn't sit on me or on the furniture when wet) but otherwise didn't mention it. It got worse for a couple of weeks, then way way better. We went swimming the other day and I noticed that when she got changed (late afternoon) her underwear were DRY (tmi, I know, but I was thrilled). I too was seriously starting to wonder if something was physically wrong, but apparently it wasn't. Things aren't perfect yet, but I'd say she's much much closer to being on par with her peers.

So, all I have to say is to hang in there - another month may make all the difference!

Erica

 

Our son wasn't comfortable using the toilet consistently until he was nearly 5. Some children aren't. And some regress when overtired, overstimulated, pre-occupied or stressed (new baby in the house). Ds had a physical just before his 5th birthday and was still wearing diapers per his preference. Our doctor was fully informed that boys are toileting independent much later than girls.

Per a quick search on the internet, I found that the most common source of inability to control the bladder to be related to allergies. Evidently, 50% of children who eliminated cow dairy became more toileting abled. The other most allergenic foods were chocolate, eggs, citrus fruits, and wheat. I saw that bed wetting (enuresis) is highly hereditary. If both parents had issues, than 77% of their children have issues with inability to control the bladder. If only one parent, than 44% of children had issues.

Apparently 20% of 5 year olds are not fully toileting. 14% of 7 year olds are not; 4% of 12 year olds; and 1-2% of 15 year olds are not fully toileting. Nighttime control is most difficult, especially for boys and for those who sleep deeply. Avoiding liquids after 6pm appears to help. Indication for medical intervention is not typically recommended until age 6 or 7. However most children who are not toileting independently at 6, won't be at 7. Most concerns were related to urinary tract infections, diabetes and neurological issues.

Ds at 6.5 still has occasional accidents when he consumes a lot of dairy or wheat.

HTH, Pat

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by WuWei Our son wasn't comfortable using the toilet consistently until he was nearly 5. Some children aren't. And some regress when overtired, overstimulated, pre-occupied or stressed (new baby in the house). Ds had a physical just before his 5th birthday and was still wearing diapers per his preference. Our doctor was fully informed that boys are toileting independent much later than girls. Per a quick search on the internet, I found that the most common source of inability to control the bladder to be related to allergies. Evidently, 50% of children who eliminated cow dairy became more toileting abled. The other most allergenic foods were chocolate, eggs, citrus fruits, and wheat. I saw that bed wetting (enuresis) is highly hereditary. If both parents had issues, than 77% of their children have issues with inability to control the bladder. If only one parent, than 44% of children had issues. Apparently 20% of 5 year olds are not fully toileting. 14% of 7 year olds are not; 4% of 12 year olds; and 1-2% of 15 year olds are not fully toileting. Nighttime control is most difficult, especially for boys and for those who sleep deeply. Avoiding liquids after 6pm appears to help. Indication for medical intervention is not typically recommended until age 6 or 7. However most children who are not toileting independently at 6, won't be at 7. Most concerns were related to urinary tract infections, diabetes and neurological issues. Ds at 6.5 still has occasional accidents when he consumes a lot of dairy or wheat. HTH, Pat

I'd love some of your sources if they're available - we figured out dairy (and possibly wheat, still looking at it) on our own, with absolutely no outside support for what seemed so clear to me. I'd love some 'official sources'!

Thanks

Erica

 

Does she wet every single time or does she sometimes have the ability to control it?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by JERENAUD I'd love some of your sources if they're available - we figured out dairy (and possibly wheat, still looking at it) on our own, with absolutely no outside support for what seemed so clear to me. I'd love some 'official sources'! Thanks Erica

Erica, I've done a bit of googling to find my original sources. I first did the search back in April '05. At the time, I didn't note the different links. Is there a specific variable which you'd like sourced? The info was a combination of reading a bunch of different sites. I googled dairy, enuresis, allergies, wheat, citrus and there are a bunch of articles. The percentages seem to vary a lot by source, however.

Pat

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyttlewon Does she wet every single time or does she sometimes have the ability to control it?

My dd is always wet. I don't think she's dry for more than ten minutes.

Thanks for the responses thus far.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by amis2girls My dd is always wet. I don't think she's dry for more than ten minutes. Thanks for the responses thus far.

Good luck with the dairy issue. DH had a major dairy intollerence as a child and had a very difficult time with bed wetting until he was about 12 or so. I don't know how hard it was for him to PT in general. I think you might be on the right track.

 

My son doesn't keep his clothes dry. He does pee in the potty when naked though. I don't know what's up with that but he could care less about his clothing. Have you tried naked? Seems like a silly suggestion but you never know.

 

My dd has food allergies and when she has an allergic food in her system she does not wet herself but is going to the bath room every few minutes.

Thank G_D she is soo much better now!

she is allergic to wheat dairy corn soy chocolate and sugar. She is even dry at night now.

When we eliminated all sugars except honey and maltitol (an artificial sweetener in alot of "health food" cookies) even though she was still eating a number of her allergins, we saw a vast improvement. My dd doesnt like not having the foods that other kids do but she knows what it does to her, she does not want loose bowels and to be running to the bathroom every 5minutes.

We were also greatly helped by a Classical Homeopath.

I'd be happyto chat more if you have ???????

pm me or i'll check back on this thread, i have been thinking abt you and your dd since yesterday, i just got back here to post.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilamama We were also greatly helped by a Classical Homeopath.

We see benefits to allergen tolerance with classical homeopathy and fewer symptoms also.

Pat

 

Ami!

You're describing almost word for word what we've been through.

I looked into food allergies (I'm skeptical in our case), nutritional deficiencies (came up empty), or a physiological issue related to her bladder or kidneys.

We had repeated urine tests that showed blood in the urine, and it took quite a bit of pushing to get to the next step. Our ped finally sent us to a pediatric nephrologist (sp?) to follow up.

Has she had a bladder emptying test? They took and u/s of DD's bladder to see it full, then had her pee and checked to see if it emptied all the way. She passed that test, which only left us with a bladder that has spasms, contracting and causing her to leak, or a "parenting problem"

:

The nephrologist offered to prescribe a prescription that helps reduce the need to pee as often by reducing bladder contractions, but in our case DD infuriatingly didn't seem to care about the accidents. Since she didn't care, we didn't see a need to do the prescription, but to continue sending multiple changes of clothes to school each day.

What we've done that I think has helped:

*We've spent a lot of time talking about what pee is, how it's made in the body, how it's stored in the bladder, and how it's released in the bathroom (and *not* released other times).

*We've been talking a lot about "listening to her body" and talking specifically about how her bladder signals to her brain that it needs to pee. We've also asked her at times to estimate *how full* her bladder is, so we don't just talk about empty and full, but in between.

*We have been giving small rewards for making it to the end of the day with a "good hygiene" day, which seems to help some.

We're now almost to 5.5 years, and she's finally getting a lot better, with leak accidents happening maybe twice a week. Honestly, I think her bladder-brain link is really weak, and we've had to teach her very specifically how to pay attention to and check in with her bladder to avoid accidents. We still have no satisfying answer on the blood in the urine, but hopefully she grows out of it as well. He have a check up on that in March, I think.

 

I grew up with lots of bladder issues, and a spastic bladder is my first thought. It's treatable with medication, which helps with frequency, and makes it easier to get to the potty in time. She may not care, because to her it seems hopeless to even try. Giving her a sense of control over what her body is doing really can help the situation a lot.

I also had a reflux, but you mentioned that the us came back okay, so that should have been ruled out.

Both conditions are hereditary, and we've been watching my almost 4 year old go through multiple underwear changes each day. We will wait till she's 4 to get testing done. If there is no family history, she may just be a late potty learner.

BTW, blood in the urine can also indicate kidney stones, which can cause symptoms similar to a UTI. Rare in kids, but not unheard of.

 

There are a lot of great ideas on here. I'll just add what turned out to be our answer - vitamin c.

Crazy, I know, but true. At first I thought it was fruits, and cut those out with success. Then winter hit and I upped her vit c to make sure we stayed healthy, right? All the sudden, the wetting was back even though fruit was not. Hmmmmm. . .

My youngest has tons of food intolerances, and I started reading up on oxalates. In that reading I discovered a linkage betweeen frequent urination, oxalates and vitamin c. So, I gave it a try for my oldest and quit giving her vitamin c. Voila - no more wetting. I've done a few on and off trials, and I am positive this is her issue. I think now that both my girls have issues with oxatlates (and thus processing vitamin c), but the only outward symptom my oldest displays is the wetting (versus my youngest who has many issues).

 

what are oxatlates?