[Theloose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by changingseasons Well, she still woke about a million times last night, but there were only a couple instances of crying. No incoherent screaming tantrums. Was it really the CLO? That seems way too easy. If only I could catch up on this biochem stuff....

Read the pdf in the first post of that thread - it's an interview, not toooo technical... They used fish oil to prevent salicylate-induced asthma, urticaria *and* run of the mill sunburn!

 

[deditus]

Adding this info from Kirkman's Phenol Assist product page:

http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/ViewProdu...uct_ID@95.aspx

Quote:

Kirkman's Phenol Assist™ Companion helps optimize the sulfation chemistry associated with phenolic compounds and salicylates competing for the body's sulfate stores. It is designed to be taken with Kirkman's Phenol Assist™ or can be used with other enzyme products designed to help regulate phenolic load. Phenols and polyphenols have antioxidant qualities and protective functions that make them beneficial. Kirkman's Phenol Assist™ helps reduce the phenolic load on the body's sulfation capacity. Other nutrients also support the body's sulfation chemistry. The ingredients in Phenol Assist™ Companion and their role in sulfation are as follows: Vitamin B-1 assists in making sulfate from sulfur. Vitamin B-2 helps oxidize sulfite to sulfate. Magnesium helps activate enzymes used in sulfation. Molybdenum is necessary to convert sulfite to sulfate. Taurine supplementation makes more sulfur available because taurine, when ingested, frees up cysteine and sulfur for sulfation. Glycine supports taurine efficiency by working with taurine to form bile salts. Methionine brings methyl groups and sulfur into the body and helps support sulfation capacity. Lysine binds with arabinose, which is inadvertently released when plant cells are opened up by Phenol Assist™. Since arabinose can disable enzymes in the body, it is important to tie up this sugar. Arginine, like lysine, binds with arabinose. Alpha-Ketoglutaric Acid is used as a complexing agent

 

[Theloose]

Since this is also turning into the molybdenum thread, I'll post here:

From Modern Nutrition in Health and Disease by Shils et al (10th ed):
(in case you're considering buying the book, this is about 1/8th of a page and there are 2000+ pages and it's ALL this dense)

"Three mammalian hydroxylases are molybdenoenzymes. They include the mitochondrial enzyme sulfite oxidase, which catalyzes the oxidation of sulfite to sulfate in the metabolism of sulfur from methionine and cysteine, and the two enzymes that hydroxylate heterocyclic substrates including purines and pyridines, xanthine oxidase, and aldehyde oxidase. Xanthine oxidase catalyzes the conversion of xanthine and its derivatives such as caffeine to uric acid and uric acid derivatives. Aldehyde oxidase is a metalloflavoprotein composed of flavin adenine dinucleotide, Mo, and iron in a 1:1:4 ratio. It is involved in the formation of cotinine, a major metabolite of nicotine that occurs in the urine of cigarette smokers."

What I translate that to:

Molybdenum is used to make three things:
sulfite oxidase, which is what we're talking about here in terms of sulfur sensitivities
xanthine oxidase, which converts xanthine and caffeine into uric acid
aldehyde oxidase, which gets used in processing nicotine

And so what I'm wondering is, does molybdenum get used up by smoking, and does low molybdenum mean low caffeine tolerance? How would that relate to phase one detox?

 

[changingseasons]

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoMe And so what I'm wondering is, does molybdenum get used up by smoking, and does low molybdenum mean low caffeine tolerance? How would that relate to phase one detox?

hmmm... trying to make connections here. I smoked for about 15 years, quit about 3 years ago. DD's Mo is through the roof, and if you look at my results as an "all-low" presentation and move everything up a bit, mine would be really high too. So is my body clinging to Mo because I had been using so much of it for so many years?? Or....?

 

[Theloose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by changingseasons hmmm... trying to make connections here. I smoked for about 15 years, quit about 3 years ago. DD's Mo is through the roof, and if you look at my results as an "all-low" presentation and move everything up a bit, mine would be really high too. So is my body clinging to Mo because I had been using so much of it for so many years?? Or....?

Interesting. How are/were you on iron?

 

[changingseasons]

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoMe Interesting. How are/were you on iron?

The hair test showed me right in the normal range, so if that were pushed up it might be a little high (not anywhere near the Mo though.) Of course, who knows, since the hair test isn't all that accurate while BFing.

 

[Theloose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by changingseasons The hair test showed me right in the normal range, so if that were pushed up it might be a little high (not anywhere near the Mo though.) Of course, who knows, since the hair test isn't all that accurate while BFing.

So no anemia or anything? Nothing showed up with the blood tests while pg?

 

[changingseasons]

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoMe So no anemia or anything? Nothing showed up with the blood tests while pg?

Nope, I think my levels have always been fine. (At least they were fine enough that no one ever mentioned them to me...)

eta: As soon as I can get my insurance issues resolved, I want to go and have a bunch of blood tests done to see where everything stands right now!

 

[FireWithin]

For the past couple of years my caffeine tolerance has been really low. In the past month I've noticed i've been able to have a cup of caffeinated tea in the morning, once in a while, without a problem.

 

[Theloose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by changingseasons Nope, I think my levels have always been fine. (At least they were fine enough that no one ever mentioned them to me...) eta: As soon as I can get my insurance issues resolved, I want to go and have a bunch of blood tests done to see where everything stands right now!

You really like to make things difficult, don't you?

I hope your tests are more helpful than mine

 

[Theloose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mammo2Sammo For the past couple of years my caffeine tolerance has been really low. In the past month I've noticed i've been able to have a cup of caffeinated tea in the morning, once in a while, without a problem.

And the difference is the molybdenum? That's really cool!

 

[FireWithin]

I have been attributing to this detox path we are taking, and I think I can be more specific now and say it is the molybdenum.

I've been thinking quite a bit about your recent post:
Whome: "What I translate that to:
Molybdenum is used to make three things:
sulfite oxidase, which is what we're talking about here in terms of sulfur sensitivities
xanthine oxidase, which converts xanthine and caffeine into uric acid
aldehyde oxidase, which gets used in processing nicotine
And so what I'm wondering is, does molybdenum get used up by smoking, and does low molybdenum mean low caffeine tolerance? How would that relate to phase one detox?

I think my Mo problem has been a long time in devloping. My mother smoked 3 packs a day when pregant with me. (I was 2 weeks late and only 5.3 pounds.) She continued to smoke until I turned 3. We lived in a heavy smoker house for 4 years, my ages 6-10. At that time I suffered from undiagnosed asthma. My asthma wasn't diagnosed until I almost died from an attack in 11th grade. In high school I started seeing minor signs of chemical sulfite sensitivity in dried fruits. In college I continued to have asthma and had an ana reaction to sulfites in a particular food.
Prior to pregnancies I was a moderate bean eater. My asthma, which at times needed meds, came and went. I couldn't stomach beans during both pregnancies. My youngest (age 3) was (notice the word was

allergic to beans up until this past month. (As long as we don't overstress our sulfuration pathway, we can handle beans. I had lentils and eggs today - with very little Mo supp, and I'm feeling a bit itchy right now). My guess is that most of my Mo sources disappeared on my limited diet. Without knowing it (because of my limited diet) I became sensitive to many sulfur foods, and developed very significant depression this past year.
It has been difficult for me to figure out how much Mo to take. I worry that I will take too much. Also, I keep on running out and need to order more online. So at times my taking it has been spotty. I just ordered some from WaterOz because their approach to mineral supps really makes sense to me.
My oldest is showing signs of asthma (along with needing to get an emergency inhaler), I am going to make sure he gets enough Mo.

 

[Theloose]

I just want to post a quick calculation that I just made... My Gropper book says that people have about .1-1mcg Mo/1g wet body weight, and that absorption is 50-90% If you assume .5mcg and 150lbs, and 50% absorption, and taking the upper limit for a lactating person (2000mcg/day) it would take about a month to go from zero to normal.

Hmm... for a 30lb toddler, the upper limit is 300mcg/day, so it would take about 3 weeks.

Just in case anyone was curious

 

[FireWithin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoMe I just want to post a quick calculation that I just made... My Gropper book says that people have about .1-1mcg Mo/1g wet body weight, and that absorption is 50-90% If you assume .5mcg and 150lbs, and 50% absorption, and taking the upper limit for a lactating person (2000mcg/day) it would take about a month to go from zero to normal. Hmm... for a 30lb toddler, the upper limit is 300mcg/day, so it would take about 3 weeks. Just in case anyone was curious

I am since we are taking it a little willy-nilly. since I seem to be totally out of sync with my pendulum.

 

[FireWithin]

Thought I should post here - thanks for bringing this thread back up WhoMe

DS1 and I were both having problems with asthma (we were mostly out of Mo at the time). Mo is back in our lives again, and no more asthma!
DS1 has a tough cold right now, so sometimes his breathing is a little off, but I think it is the cold and not asthma related.

 

[lil_miss_understood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoMe I just want to post a quick calculation that I just made... My Gropper book says that people have about .1-1mcg Mo/1g wet body weight, and that absorption is 50-90% If you assume .5mcg and 150lbs, and 50% absorption, and taking the upper limit for a lactating person (2000mcg/day) it would take about a month to go from zero to normal. Hmm... for a 30lb toddler, the upper limit is 300mcg/day, so it would take about 3 weeks. Just in case anyone was curious

:
That totally blows my 50mcg from my prenatal out of the water.
Time for me to look up rich food sources and see if I'm getting anything resembling what I should be.

 

[Theloose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacquelineR : That totally blows my 50mcg from my prenatal out of the water. Time for me to look up rich food sources and see if I'm getting anything resembling what I should be.

Yeah. 50 is the RDA, and 2000 is the tolerable upper limit. Food sources max out at about 180mcg/100g lentils, iirc.

 

[mamafish9]

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoMe I just want to post a quick calculation that I just made... My Gropper book says that people have about .1-1mcg Mo/1g wet body weight, and that absorption is 50-90% If you assume .5mcg and 150lbs, and 50% absorption, and taking the upper limit for a lactating person (2000mcg/day) it would take about a month to go from zero to normal. Hmm... for a 30lb toddler, the upper limit is 300mcg/day, so it would take about 3 weeks. Just in case anyone was curious

Phew. I just ordered some liquid Mo, with 25 mcg/drop. At that rate, I'll be drinking the whole bottle!

So, question. I'm trying to support the sulfation pathway for DS, to help with his sals sensitivity. He gets plenty of sulfur foods through me, and a decent amount himself (he's still getting about 75% of his calories from bm. I'm assuming that B6, Mo, and magnesium are all good things, so I'm taking the B6, Epsom salt baths for both of us, and I'll be doing Mo for both of us. I'm eating plenty of sulfur foods, and he's eating quite a few as well (given that he doesn't eat a whole lot yet).

My question is, what gets to him in useful form in my bm? If I pass him sulfates in my milk (I assume that's what he'd get, if I'm breaking them down right, it would be sulfates in my blood, so I assume my milk too). Will those sulfates make it through his digestive system as useful sulfate for him, or will they get broken down? Or do I need to get the sulfur foods into him directly, with lots of B6/Mo/Mg to break them down?

 

[Theloose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mamafish9 Phew. I just ordered some liquid Mo, with 25 mcg/drop. At that rate, I'll be drinking the whole bottle! So, question. I'm trying to support the sulfation pathway for DS, to help with his sals sensitivity. He gets plenty of sulfur foods through me, and a decent amount himself (he's still getting about 75% of his calories from bm. I'm assuming that B6, Mo, and magnesium are all good things, so I'm taking the B6, Epsom salt baths for both of us, and I'll be doing Mo for both of us. I'm eating plenty of sulfur foods, and he's eating quite a few as well (given that he doesn't eat a whole lot yet). My question is, what gets to him in useful form in my bm? If I pass him sulfates in my milk (I assume that's what he'd get, if I'm breaking them down right, it would be sulfates in my blood, so I assume my milk too). Will those sulfates make it through his digestive system as useful sulfate for him, or will they get broken down? Or do I need to get the sulfur foods into him directly, with lots of B6/Mo/Mg to break them down?

I have no idea

What makes sense to me is that whatever form the sulfur is in your milk is bioavailable to him. And that B6/Mo/Mg will be good for him. And then the other thing to think about is if the nutrients are even going to the right places. If the cysteine all goes to keratin (hair/nails) then there isn't much to break down to go through sulfoxidation. That's where I've been reading about inflammation and calcium ion channels. This stuff gets so complicated...

 

[menomena]

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoMe I just want to post a quick calculation that I just made... My Gropper book says that people have about .1-1mcg Mo/1g wet body weight, and that absorption is 50-90% If you assume .5mcg and 150lbs, and 50% absorption, and taking the upper limit for a lactating person (2000mcg/day) it would take about a month to go from zero to normal. Hmm... for a 30lb toddler, the upper limit is 300mcg/day, so it would take about 3 weeks. Just in case anyone was curious

I think I am taking 250mcg/day i think, and have been for less than a week. Perhaps I should add one tablet to my regimen a week (until i hit TUL)and see if I see a difference. i feel asleep with DD2 tonight around 9p and woke up just now (2a). I haven't done THAT in forever.