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Personally i wouldn't want my child doing any one activity for 8 hours straight. I LOVE to read, I could read non-stop but I make sure I don't read over an hour straight (ok, right about now i don't get more than 15 minutes straight). I find reading (and watching TV for that matter) to be very easy time wasters, by the time you realize how much time you have spent doing that activity you have wasted half your day. I don't really consider reading a waste but I have a LOT of other activities I should be/need to be doing and so does everyone.
 
Discussion starter · #42 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by theatermom View Post
Passive viewing doesn't. Active viewing, particularly the kind of viewing that leads to deep, meaningful exchanges between friends and family members, or sparks an interest that leads to deeper investigation, does lead to exercise for your brain (particularly if you are a visual learner). It doesn't matter whether this is the type of viewing that most people do -- it matters that it isn't the medium itself that is the problem as much as it is the way it is used. Excessive tv watching is a problem -- but if a person is living a normal life, with friends and relatives and hobbies and work, tv doesn't have to be an evil thing.
this is exactly my dd's point of view. not that she is asking me to allow her to watch tv 8 hours a day everyday. or even read for that matter. but she likes to once in a while wallow in tvdom or books (esp. when she gets into her thinking phase). that is her special privilege in summer. of course this is a moot point now that summer vacation is over.

i dont know if its her kind of personality or not, but she has never really watched tv passively or bought into what they are saying without questioning it. while watching ninja turtles she asked me 'why do all the bad guys have to die. if you kill the bad guys then how different are you from the bad guys? just because they did xxx does that make him a bad guy?'

when she saw a foundation commercial she asked me why we use foundation. it only fixes the problem for a little bit, it doesnt take away all the spots, so what's the point in wearing it.

she is the child who does prefer reading to tv. now if i can find her some good her kinda manga she would happily do that instead of watch anime.

she first watched the movie bridge to terabitha before she was ready to read the book (i dont think she has read the book yet - or maybe she has). that movie completely changed her views on bullies and how to treat bullies.

so basically what she is saying is to not write off media as time wasted. but as a learning experience too.

she prefers reading non fiction rather than watching shows. with shows she finds they just present facts without an explanation.

AislinCarys - yup yup. she watched this whole series of anime show and then spent days thinking about it and trying to figure out what she wanted to 'do' about it. she didnt want to tell me the process until she was sure of it. so she spent a few days thinking before she decided to apply it and then she told me.

she also points out SHE gets more value from certain shows than i assign value to them. and i notice she does do that.

so in a way both books and tv are a catalyst for her. and i have seen the impact on her.

Storm Bride even though dd enjoyed Amelia Badelia, its Skippyjohn Jones that has a special place in dd's heart. AND heidi too.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OkiMom View Post
Personally i wouldn't want my child doing any one activity for 8 hours straight. I LOVE to read, I could read non-stop but I make sure I don't read over an hour straight (ok, right about now i don't get more than 15 minutes straight). I find reading (and watching TV for that matter) to be very easy time wasters, by the time you realize how much time you have spent doing that activity you have wasted half your day. I don't really consider reading a waste but I have a LOT of other activities I should be/need to be doing and so does everyone.
I don't feel reading to be a time waster. Ideas are where all of the human races innovations come from and the written word is how we share ideas. Now some written material is more mindless amusement than others, but probably about half or more of it isn't. So if I need intellectual stimulation and want to spend a couple of hours immersed in Brian Greene's Elegant Universe or I need the pure stress relief of a clever novel, I don't feel guilty. I usually do TV during planned quiet alone time ....... so it's also an unwinding activity. Trying to read for just 15 minutes would probably drive me buggy if the book was any good. My DD likes to have some one outside when she plays so sitting under a tree reading while she's running around works really well.
 
As an unschooler of a radical persuasion, I see no reason to draw a line between reading and television watching. Sometimes I will bury myself in books and read for hours...other days I just want to watch a movie or two...sometime I want to do nothing but knit, other days I want to be outside as much as possible. I assume that my child may be similar. She's just a toddler, but sometimes it's "outside outside outside" all day....and then others it's "a show a show a show". I'm okay with that. If your child is in school, then I think they should definitely get to decide how they will spend their summer vacation! How would any of us feel if we went on vacation and had someone telling us not to spend it doing such-and-such? We'd probably be pretty annoyed, and rightfully so! Actually, I've had that happen. When we'd go to the river when I was younger people would constantly bug me to go on the boat or go skiing. I just wanted to lay on a blanket and relax under a nice tree (either reading, coloring, listening to music, or doing some needlework). I often wanted to stab people as a result because it was MY vacation and I should have been left to do as I pleased.

As a child my mother would fuss at me for reading "too much". It annoyed the crap out of me! I would get a book that I really enjoyed and camp out on the couch reading for a couple days. Nevermind the fact that I spent many other days that week outside at all times playing...or that I spent the next day crafting...she still fussed at me to "do something constructive".
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If I wasn't reading a lot, she'd fuss at me to read more. Seriously...I remember thinking "make up your mind, woman!".
 
Discussion starter · #45 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by New Mama View Post
I wrote this blog entry when I was considering whether or not to make DS TV-free (and he is):

I started doing research on the effects of television on children. What I found made me realize my gut instinct to keep Henry far, far away was right on. The Plug-In Drug: Television, Computers, and Family Life by Marie Winn is particularly eye-opening. She asserts that it's not just what a child watches that matters -- it's that they watch at all:

"Parents may overemphasize the importance of content because they assume that their children's television experience is the same as their own. But there's an essential difference between the two: adults have a vast backlog of real-life experiences that colors what they see; children do not. As adults watch television, their own present and past experiences, dreams, and fantasies come into play, transforming the material they see into something reflecting their own particular inner needs. Young children's life experiences are limited. They have barely emerged from the preverbal fog of infancy. It is disquieting to consider that hour after hour of television watching constitutes a primary activity for them. Their subsequent real-life activities will stir memories of television experiences, not, as for adult watchers, the other way around. To a certain extent children's early television experiences will serve to dehumanize, to mechanize, to make less real the realities and relationships they encounter in life. For them, real events will always carry subtle echoes of the television world." (Bold mine.)

She also discusses how television watching displaces human interaction for children, and why this is so noteworthy:

"According to...neuroscientists, among the most important of the environmental factors that might affect neurological development are the language and eye contact an infant is exposed to. Indeed, some researchers say that the number of words an infant hears each day is the single most important predictor of later intelligence, school success and social competence. But there's one catch. As a New York Times science writer concluded, 'The words have to come from an attentive, engaged human being. As far as anyone has been able to determine, radio and television do not work.'" (Bold mine.)

Winn says that television viewing also keeps children from playing, which serves a vital role in their social, emotional, and intellectual development. In the "more complex forms of imaginative play they...find ways to work out difficulties and adjust the realities of life to their inner requirements.... In play they expose, and perhaps exorcise, fears that they cannot articulate in any other way."

She also explores the difference between reading and television viewing, which often displaces reading: "At the same time that children learn to read written words they begin to acquire the rudiments of writing. Thus they come to understand that a word is something they can write themselves. That they wield such power over the very words they are struggling to decipher makes the reading experience a satisfying one right from the start." However, "[a] young child watching television enters a realm of materials completely beyond his or her understanding.... They take on a far more powerless and ignorant role in front of the television set than in front of a book."

Winn addresses television's damaging effects on the growing-up process, too: "There's an evolutionary purpose to [the] behavior progression from parent-centered, passive, receptive orientation to an environment-centered, active, learning style of life: the individual's survival in society is necessarily a function of active, adaptive behavior. It is precisely at this point in a child's development, somewhere between the ages of two and thee, that parents are most likely to begin turning on the television set for their young children. While watching television, young children are once again as safe, secure, and receptive as they were in their mother's arms. They need offer nothing of themselves while watching.... Just as they're beginning to emerge from their infant helplessness, the television set temporarily but inexorably returns them to a state of attachment and dependence." (Bold mine.)

Television also negatively affects something called inferential reasoning, Winn says: "One particular skill...that [has shown] a significant decline [among schoolchildren] -- an advanced reading skill called 'inferential reasoning' -- has caused particular concern.... Inferential reasoning is the ability, beyond the mere mechanics of reading, to draw conclusions, form judgments, and create new ideas out of what one reads. The ability to make inferences is essential to meaningful reading in literature, history, science, and other subjects. Without this complex ability, reading becomes a superficial exercise." She gives the example of a project carried out by a Harvard University research organization called Project Zero that connects the decline in inferential reasoning with children's television watching.

The final point I found so compelling in Winn's book is the connection between television and a growing lack of community-mindedness. She says that "tarting in the late 1960s or early 1970s, Americans seemed to grow considerably less community-minded than they had been in years past" and that in "Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community, Harvard social historian Robert Putnam points out that the first television generation was precisely the one that marked the beginning of the decline." Putnam's conclusion was that "'[a] major commitment to television viewing -- such has most of us have come to have -- is incompatible with a major commitment to community life.'" (Bold mine.)

So there you have it. TV makes real-life less real, displaces human interaction, hampers development only produced by play, replaces the power of reading and writing with the passivity of viewing, promotes dependence when independence is crucial, limits the ability to reason inferentially, and narrows the scope of one's involvement in the world.


thank you mama for taking the time to give me a sneak peak into this book.

and i will say i completely disagree with this point of view. because TV is NOT a big part of our lives. it plays a small part but a significant part none the less.

i think she is spot on if a kid just sits and vegetates in front of the tv.

what is particularly funny is TV is ACTUALLY developing dd's inferential reasoning. i will go as far as to say that schools are also not only not developing inf. reasoning but in fact discouraging it too.

dd has watched tv from 2. on and off. never ever on a regular basis. mostly movies though. we really havent had tv programming in a long time. so i havent really given tv watching much importance.

i hadnt formed my opinion yet. i couldnt see it as evil. i can totally relate to the author watching my room mates teenage boys either play video games or watch tv and nothing else. that's what they do with their time with ocassionally going out once in a while. so with them i can totally see the author makes sense.

personally i really do think we make tv to be more of an evil than it really is. just like anything else doing too much of one thing, even if its drinking water is bad for you.
 
I could read for 8 hours, and so could my kids. No problem. Unless we have to get something done or go somewhere, I never, ever discourage them from reading.

My parents constantly told me to get my nose out of a book and 'do something'. I detested those 'somethings' that they wished me to do, and bitterly resented the time I was made to do something that they felt was more valuable than reading. In fact, I still resent the fact that I was made to feel that there was something wrong with me - because in their actions they showed that they thought that something was wrong with wanting to read for entire days. I'm sure it was well meant, but the message was very negative and hurtful.

I grew up to major in Lit, and eventually became a writer. I still read a lot - not as much as I'd like, but I am totally content when I have a book in my hand. I commented to my kids (homeschooled) today that they write beautifully for kids who have never been made to do a formal writing exercise in their lives. All three of them write pieces that would be considered waaaaay ahead of their grade level - their writing is well composed, thoughtful, engaging, with good grammar and spelling. They have developed this ability simply because they have listened to and read a wealth of good literature and non-fiction. I believe that if you read, you can cut out all those hours spent in schools on formal language instruction, which is yet another reason why time spent reading is time well spent.
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I would never try to limit my child's time spent with their books. I know what joy books have brought me, and would not deny that to my children.
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Most TV does not engage the brain the way most reading does, but some reading material is "trash" and some TV/movies/etc. are very stimulating, especially when the content matches well with the watcher's interests, so I do agree that there is a judgement call to make for sure. I do think reading > TV as a general rule is still sound, but like any rule there are exceptions
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But then, I also think the same about video games, some of them really are great in moderation.

And while I think reading is wonderful, reading for too much each day is still too sedentary, especially for a child. Nothing wrong with kicking a kid out of the house if they are being too sedentary.
 
Didn't read all responses yet...

But I pretty much was that kid! lol I have always loved reading, and I spent many summers reading the whole day. But I did usually read outside, and it wasn't always everyday, and I'd do some other things too.

But I think reading is definitely better than all day TV, as a PP did mention about reading is a lot more cognitive and your brain has to actually think, whereas most TV programming for kids just does not do that, and it's easy to zone while watching TV.

I know while reading, I often even event other parts of the story in a daydreaming creative way.

As long as it's not all day every day the whole summer, I don't really see an issue with it.
 
I wouldn't want my child reading or watching TV for 8 hours a day. Get off your butt and get outside would be my answer, unless they are sick or something. Go for a walk, take the kids swimming, something.

My friend's daughter reads all day long, she also has a severe weight problem, so her reading isn't exactly keeping her healthy.
 
I didn't read the whole thread, nor do I believe I have any answer right for anyone but me.

But why try to control either action? I cannot understand the mentality of forcing a child to stop reading, if they are enjoying the activity and it is meaningful and worthwhile to them. I personally might not want to read for 8 hours straight, but this by no means relates to what a child might want.

What if you just let them....do either for that matter. What they are getting from it might be so far beyond our understanding right now. And even if they aren't getting anything from it in a tangible way, they are dealing with how sitting for 8 hours makes them feel and learning self control in the process. Also, many children aren't given the luxury to spend 8 hours doing whatever they please, some are detoxing from school and NEED to do this, others just enjoy reading.

My point is (since I'm rambling) is why so much control (specially for the reading part!). Why worry about the time they spent at all. Tomorrow they might watch zero TV or read nothing. Look at the weekly, the monthly etc.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiderMum View Post
As an unschooler of a radical persuasion, I see no reason to draw a line between reading and television watching. Sometimes I will bury myself in books and read for hours...other days I just want to watch a movie or two...sometime I want to do nothing but knit, other days I want to be outside as much as possible. I assume that my child may be similar. She's just a toddler, but sometimes it's "outside outside outside" all day....and then others it's "a show a show a show". I'm okay with that. If your child is in school, then I think they should definitely get to decide how they will spend their summer vacation! How would any of us feel if we went on vacation and had someone telling us not to spend it doing such-and-such? We'd probably be pretty annoyed, and rightfully so! Actually, I've had that happen. When we'd go to the river when I was younger people would constantly bug me to go on the boat or go skiing. I just wanted to lay on a blanket and relax under a nice tree (either reading, coloring, listening to music, or doing some needlework). I often wanted to stab people as a result because it was MY vacation and I should have been left to do as I pleased.

As a child my mother would fuss at me for reading "too much". It annoyed the crap out of me! I would get a book that I really enjoyed and camp out on the couch reading for a couple days. Nevermind the fact that I spent many other days that week outside at all times playing...or that I spent the next day crafting...she still fussed at me to "do something constructive".
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If I wasn't reading a lot, she'd fuss at me to read more. Seriously...I remember thinking "make up your mind, woman!".
Nodding head dramatically.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by katelove View Post
I wouldsay that the difference is between content and processing. If you watch a TV show then little is left to the imagination - the set, the characters, the costumes, the weather, the accents, the tone of voice, the emphasis - it's all there for you. Whereas, if you read a book, even a descriptive book, you still have to create all those things for yourself. I would argue that even if the words were exactly the same on the TV show or in the book that the book would still be better. Superficially, it may seem like you're getting the same information but the book requires more of your brain.

I think this is why the book is always better than the movie. I LIKE being able to imagine the way the characters look, what the setting looks like, and feeling connected to the story in a way that TV just doesn't allow. I hate watching TV though - and I don't have one b/c I can't afford cable
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I haven't read all replies either, but I do know that reading is the number one way to increase vocabulary and grammatical skills. If someone reads voraciously, you don't have to worry as much about their learning a wide vocabulary or teaching them grammar. That's why we do SSR in my high school English classes still
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I would take days and read all day, when I was young. I do know that I felt great after those days, and books are a huge part of my life and who I am. And I would sometimes, as a teen, take days and watch TV all day, and I felt like garbage after that... but it was addicting and made me feel phsyically icky so that all I could do was sit and watch until I could get a fresh start the next day.

I think it's fine for a kid to take a day and do whatever, if it's not all the time. But if my kid were always sitting down to read for hours at a time, I'd be happy, whereas if they did the same with TV, I'd be finding ways to encourage different activities FAST. For all the reasons I skimmed through and saw in this thread, and all the reading I've done on the topic: TV's quick-cuts, the addictive nature, the lack of positive outcomes. Sometimes TV is just fun and it's great (heck, I've sat through marathons of TV series or Pride and Prejudice
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). But there are so many studies about the harm of TV, with both the content (like, the more TV a kid watches, the higher rates of sexist thoughts, the lack of diveristy on TV, the beauty standards on TV, etc) and the nature of the medium (the quick cuts, passivity, how it hypnotizes you, etc) that I wouldn't say endless consumption all the time is harmless, whereas there are so many studies about the positive nature of reading, I wouldn't be bothered.
 
Has anyone read about prolonged reading or other close work leading to myopia because it causes the focusing muscle to be overworked in an unnatural way? I've seen conflicting reports but it makes sense to me. (Says a voracious reader who got her first pair of glasses at age 11.)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by meemee View Post

what is the difference between reading and 'watching' - be it tv or movies.

The difference is what's going on (or not) cognitively during TV or books. In short, there's a lot more brain "activity" going on with books.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bia View Post
Has anyone read about prolonged reading or other close work leading to myopia because it causes the focusing muscle to be overworked in an unnatural way? I've seen conflicting reports but it makes sense to me. (Says a voracious reader who got her first pair of glasses at age 11.)
I haven't. All I have is anecdata.... I was a crazy reader from the time I was about 3 on. I have perfect eyesight.
My DS1 is also a crazy reader. He's been in glasses since he was 4. He was severely farsighted which caused one of his eyes to turn in to compensate. He does not truly have a lazy eye. He didn't start reading voraciously until after he got his glasses.
 
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