physics girl, This is my updated chart link for the above post ------> http://www.tcoyf.com/members/infojunkie/charts/default.aspx

How's everyone doing with their charting? I'm getting to be kind of a nerd about it! There's just so much to learn.

 

I started my Creighton charting yesterday, and was supposed to have my first class via phone call last night. Unfortunately, my instructor forgot she had to go to church last night as well, so we didn't get that done. I'm starting to doubt the long-distance thing. I could make it work, but I'm not sure my instructor is the right person for long-distance instruction. Rumor has it there is another instructor only 30 minutes away, but I haven't been able to find their contact info anywhere! Anyway, despite instructor frustration, it was oddly exciting to see that first sticker on my chart! Now here's hoping I don't start spotting again, since I'm now past the 56 day cutoff for LAM. I wanted some extra security while I got into the habit of checking and charting properly!

 

I'm fine.....I can't find my thermometer AGAIN and since I'm still abstinent.....I'm simply tracking CP and CM. I'm also going to make use of the Dollar Tree O-kits this month.

 

Infojunkie, I updated your link.

I'm eagerly awaiting AF so I can get back into charting next cycle. This current one was somewhat all over the place, and then I got food poisoning and had several days of fever. I also didn't bother with checking mucus while I was sick so I can draw no conclusions from this cycle's data. (Sigh)

 

mt_gooseberry, is it just that your instructor flaked on you last night, or are other things not going well with her? It sounds like she's Catholic, and last night was a "Holy Day of Obligation" for Catholics. There's only a few per year, but not going to church on those days is considered to be a serious sin for Catholics. To make it even more confusing, some bishops will dispense it as not a Holy Day of Obligation sometimes, like if it's really close to a Sunday, many Holy Days are moved so that they are celebrated on the nearest Sunday, and many parishes don't announce the service times until the Sunday before. It can get quite confusing, and it's understandable that she would have to cancel at the last minute.

 

(physics girl - thanks!!!)

I am just hanging around waiting to ovulate. Don't know if I will since little boy is nursing so much. I really have my eye on the Clear Blue Fertility Monitor and am very intrigued by the breastfeeding protocol for the Marquette Method.... but the price of the monitor is what stops me.

We are not really TTA seriously (as in, we are using the withdrawal method during "fertile" times, although he is being very conservative and giving lots of time after the uhh... exit, before releasing). We are ok with another baby and understand the risk, but we'll continue with this to try and delay it a while longer. I'd be ok with condoms but DH is not. He'd rather w/d and take the risk. Fine by me.

I'd just like to get on some sort of cycle so I know what's going on. Keep hoping I'll ovulate! I just want to know I still can! Kind of a silly reason to want to ovulate

 

JMJ- It hasn't just been last night. She forgot to send my materials, so I had to wait an extra week for those, and then she forgot to send all of the materials, so I'm still waiting for everything. The church thing wouldn't have bothered me (we went earlier in the evening ourselves) except it seems like there's been a pattern of "forgetting" here...charting isn't an urgent issue yet, so I'm not too worried about it, I just think it may be a sign of things to come.

On another note, does anybody know, if one conceives on their first PP ovulation, are they more likely to be fertile on the first PP ovulation again? Basically, since I got pregnant before having had PPAF, is it more likely that that is normal for me? Or was it just a fluke? I know most women experience a more gradual return to fertility.

 

me oh my! I've officially been charting a month! wow that flew fast! I started charting in the middle of last cycle and this cycle has been so interesting to see from AF onwards. I'm learning so much... and I'm so stoked to keep going. At first I tried to track EVERYTHING but learned that I don't know enough about my CP etc to really track it so back to just tracking CM and temp (but checking other signs for reference without recording) I even swore I felt ovulation pain today! who knew who knew!

My partner flies out here to live with me in 26 days... one more period to go without him AND he's set to arrive on my estimated Ovulation date (oh geez what a day to be reunited after months of separation when you're charting to avoid)

Just wanted to say hi! glad to still be here and looking forward to Nov.

I can't figure out how to make my TCOYF chart public? I would like to share it with people but I'm told people can't follow the link, any hints or clues how to fix that?

: http://www.tcoyf.com/members/nattery/charts/2.aspx

cheers!

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by nattery

me oh my! I've officially been charting a month! wow that flew fast! I started charting in the middle of last cycle and this cycle has been so interesting to see from AF onwards. I'm learning so much... and I'm so stoked to keep going. At first I tried to track EVERYTHING but learned that I don't know enough about my CP etc to really track it so back to just tracking CM and temp (but checking other signs for reference without recording) I even swore I felt ovulation pain today! who knew who knew!

My partner flies out here to live with me in 26 days... one more period to go without him AND he's set to arrive on my estimated Ovulation date (oh geez what a day to be reunited after months of separation when you're charting to avoid)

Just wanted to say hi! glad to still be here and looking forward to Nov.

I can't figure out how to make my TCOYF chart public? I would like to share it with people but I'm told people can't follow the link, any hints or clues how to fix that?

: http://www.tcoyf.com/members/nattery/charts/2.aspx

cheers!

Nattery~ There is a little box at the top of your chart on the right. You have to change it so it says viewable to everyone. Hope that helps.

 

I am still waiting for things to get going here. Hopefully won't be long now and I will be back on CD1. I wanted to say thank you to everyone who supported me over the past 1.5 months through this roller coaster of emotions.

I am planning on reading my book, as soon as things get back to normal around here. The kids have been sick and my 2 yo had a pretty bad asthma attack two days ago. This was our first experience with one so bad. Right now she is on breathing treatments every 4 hours round the clock. Also my 6 month old isn't feeling too well either. Combine the two and it means, Mommy hasn't been getting a lot of sleep. I am tired. Don't think my brain can focus on cervical mucus and BBTs right now...lol.

I hope everyone is having a great day!

Physicsgirl~ Thank you for moving me back up.

 

infojunkie, how old is your little boy? Did you have a PPAF before getting on hormonal birth control? It can take a while to get geared back up from being on HBC. I have a friend who took over 2 months to ovulate after Mirena. What kind of breastfeeding are you doing? Without HBC, would you qualify for Ecological Breastfeeding or LAM? Help me out with your chart. I'm not completely familiar with all of TCOYF's symbols. On CD 32, 33, 35, and 36, does that mean "dry" CM or "sticky"? On CD 34, does that mean "dry" or that you didn't check? Also, I'm wondering what happened with today's temp that you crossed it out.

mt_gooseberry, that's frustrating. Yeah, it sounds like maybe you'd be better off working with somebody else. You want an NFP instructor who you can depend on. I don't really know if your history makes it more likely that it would happen again. The statistics that I have seen are that about 1/3 don't ovulate, 1/3 do ovulate but have a too short LP, and 1/3 have fertile ovulation before their first PPAF. However, you're more likely to ovulate first and have a fertile cycle if your cycle comes back later than if it comes back early. I've seen some statements that genetics can play a pretty big role (though I'm not sure how well it was controlled for other factors such as weight, diet, type of breastfeeding, etc, which are known to play a bigger role) in when your cycles come back, but I haven't seen anything about whether or not this would apply to whether or not you ovulate before your first cycle. I think it's highly possible. I just haven't seen any studies about it. It seems that it would be more difficult to want to play the odds, though, after you've experienced an unplanned pregnancy before your first PPAF.

Buterflymomma, the waiting is hard. It seems like you've had more than your fair share lately. I hope things get moving again soon.

 

JMJ - CD 32, 33, 35, and 36 means "dry". My little boy is 16 months and lately he has been nursing about every 2 - 3 hours during the night but probably only every 4-6 hours during the day. He also eats solids and drinks water so we wouldn't qualify for ecological breastfeeding/LAM, I don't think? I got my Mirena inserted 8 weeks PP so never got AF. I had no AF while on Mirena (well, actually my last AF was September 23, 2009!!). Mirena came out CD 1 of this cycle and immediately went on the minipill. Stopped the minipill on CD 22. On CD 33 I didn't check CM and didn't temp either.

I have my wake-up time set on the TCOYF software at 7am, which I think I will change next cycle because it doesn't seem to be the time I get up anymore, since lately I've been getting up anywhere from 7am-8:30am. I've been having TCOYF auto adjust the temp to what it would have been at my "normal" wake up time. (.1 degree for every half hour later). Today, though, I turned on Rule of Thumb because my temp was higher than normal and my LO woke me up probably 7-8 times between 7am and when we got up at 8:45 (when I took my temp).... he was just sleeping fitfully and rolling around whining in his sleep (we bedshare). So I figured because of that my temp was probably abnormally high and didn't bother "auto adjusting" it and just kind of threw it out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMJ

infojunkie, how old is your little boy? Did you have a PPAF before getting on hormonal birth control? It can take a while to get geared back up from being on HBC. I have a friend who took over 2 months to ovulate after Mirena. What kind of breastfeeding are you doing? Without HBC, would you qualify for Ecological Breastfeeding or LAM? Help me out with your chart. I'm not completely familiar with all of TCOYF's symbols. On CD 32, 33, 35, and 36, does that mean "dry" CM or "sticky"? On CD 34, does that mean "dry" or that you didn't check? Also, I'm wondering what happened with today's temp that you crossed it out.

 

Buterflymomma - I'm so sorry for your loss. Waiting around for your body to get the message is really difficult, but I'm truly glad that I had a natural m/c instead of a D&C (or induced it with cytotec or something). I hope it happens soon so you can begin to heal and move on. *hugs*

I have a silly question that I should probably already know the answer to.

I tend to start my period at random times of the day, i.e. afternoon, late evening, etc. To be counted as Cycle Day 1, does it matter WHEN your period starts?

Thanks!

 

Hey everyone! I'm having a hard time getting back into the swing of temping, but here's my chart:

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/99502]My Ovulation Chart[/url]

We've been using w/d this cycle but finally bought some condoms after my fertile window was over. We'll be using them next cycle since my DH totally can "smell" me when I'm fertile and lurks around like a tomcat

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by infojunkie

JMJ - CD 32, 33, 35, and 36 means "dry". My little boy is 16 months and lately he has been nursing about every 2 - 3 hours during the night but probably only every 4-6 hours during the day. He also eats solids and drinks water so we wouldn't qualify for ecological breastfeeding/LAM, I don't think? I got my Mirena inserted 8 weeks PP so never got AF. I had no AF while on Mirena (well, actually my last AF was September 23, 2009!!). Mirena came out CD 1 of this cycle and immediately went on the minipill. Stopped the minipill on CD 22. On CD 33 I didn't check CM and didn't temp either.

I have my wake-up time set on the TCOYF software at 7am, which I think I will change next cycle because it doesn't seem to be the time I get up anymore, since lately I've been getting up anywhere from 7am-8:30am. I've been having TCOYF auto adjust the temp to what it would have been at my "normal" wake up time. (.1 degree for every half hour later). Today, though, I turned on Rule of Thumb because my temp was higher than normal and my LO woke me up probably 7-8 times between 7am and when we got up at 8:45 (when I took my temp).... he was just sleeping fitfully and rolling around whining in his sleep (we bedshare). So I figured because of that my temp was probably abnormally high and didn't bother "auto adjusting" it and just kind of threw it out.

Look into ecological breastfeeding (links in breastfeeding wiki above). It can be done when your child is much older, and if your breastfeeding relationship with your son looks a lot like ecological breastfeeding, it is quite possible that you could still be in amenorrhea due to breastfeeding. However, the synthetic hormones could mess with that, and even if you hadn't been using synthetic hormones, you are in the range where a lot of women start getting their cycles back. Sheila Kippley defines a "return to amenorrhea" as 6 weeks of amenorrhea, so if you go 6 weeks after stopping the pill and have not ovulated, I would assume that you are still dealing with breastfeeding amenorrhea, though I would be aware of the fact that your cycle could easily return sometime soon. It is common to have several days of more-fertile mucus before that first ovulation just because the hormonal threshhold appears to need to be higher to get that first ovulation. This is the same phenomenon that the Marquette Method relies on. However, the several days of more-fertile mucus is not universal. It is not uncommon to hear from mothers who got pregnant on that first ovulation and didn't notice a big change in CM before it happened.

It is your choice how to deal with the transition to trusting charting, and part of it depends on the effectiveness you need. I bring this up because you appear to have dried up for up to 5 days in there (I see that you had more CM today), and you could be facing the possibility of remaining in amenorrhea for a while. For mucus-only methods, if you have 4 days of "dry," you can consider yourself to be infertile on the evening of the 4th day. Now, to get the kind of effectiveness of Creighton or Billings, you have to be very meticulous about checking CM every time you use the restroom or take a shower and before you go to bed, and you have to be sure that you are really drying up or dry on all 4 of those days (like restart your count if you miss a day). Creighton also recommends one cycle (or at least one month if you're not cycling) of abstinence (so that you can get a really clear understanding of CM without seminal residue or vaginal secretions associated with sexual arousal) before you begin using the method. These mucus-only rules are also the general rules that you would use in the STM during amenorrhea (though the Kippleys recommend that if you have a mucus patch of only 1 or 2 days, you should be fine if you only wait until P+2).

So... my point is to say that you would be much "safer" waiting to count on charting until you have confirmed ovulation, but if your body doesn't seem like it's planning to get around to ovulating any time soon, you aren't completely serious about trying to avoid, and you want to start relying on charting somewhat, you could make a choice to rely on charting for some of the days as meet your needs. I would caution you about still being pretty conservative with the rules, though, if you are not trying to have a baby. I've known a lot of people who have had unplanned babies due to either not knowing the method well enough or bending the rules or skipping days of observations, and that one unplanned baby is fine, but later, they're in a position where another unplanned baby would be less fine, and it's harder to trust that charting is going to be effective. It's just a lot easier to trust that it works when you see that you don't get pregnant until you TTC, and that when you CTA conservatively, it is very effective.

 

JenRN, it's CD 1, regardless of what time of day you start unless it is just a tiny bit of spotting in the evening.

 

Thank you, JMJ. That is very helpful. He is probably nursing so much that I likely am in the "Phase 2" of ecological breastfeeding. The only thing I don't do is actually nap with him in the afternoon (usually) but I do nurse him to sleep. We'll see what happens, I suppose. I do feel disappointed that I didn't even need to have the IUD placed at all. Seems like overkill since we've basically been doing ecological breastfeeding all along. Oh well, live and learn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMJ

Look into ecological breastfeeding (links in breastfeeding wiki above). It can be done when your child is much older, and if your breastfeeding relationship with your son looks a lot like ecological breastfeeding, it is quite possible that you could still be in amenorrhea due to breastfeeding. However, the synthetic hormones could mess with that, and even if you hadn't been using synthetic hormones, you are in the range where a lot of women start getting their cycles back. Sheila Kippley defines a "return to amenorrhea" as 6 weeks of amenorrhea, so if you go 6 weeks after stopping the pill and have not ovulated, I would assume that you are still dealing with breastfeeding amenorrhea, though I would be aware of the fact that your cycle could easily return sometime soon. It is common to have several days of more-fertile mucus before that first ovulation just because the hormonal threshhold appears to need to be higher to get that first ovulation. This is the same phenomenon that the Marquette Method relies on. However, the several days of more-fertile mucus is not universal. It is not uncommon to hear from mothers who got pregnant on that first ovulation and didn't notice a big change in CM before it happened.

It is your choice how to deal with the transition to trusting charting, and part of it depends on the effectiveness you need. I bring this up because you appear to have dried up for up to 5 days in there (I see that you had more CM today), and you could be facing the possibility of remaining in amenorrhea for a while. For mucus-only methods, if you have 4 days of "dry," you can consider yourself to be infertile on the evening of the 4th day. Now, to get the kind of effectiveness of Creighton or Billings, you have to be very meticulous about checking CM every time you use the restroom or take a shower and before you go to bed, and you have to be sure that you are really drying up or dry on all 4 of those days (like restart your count if you miss a day). Creighton also recommends one cycle (or at least one month if you're not cycling) of abstinence (so that you can get a really clear understanding of CM without seminal residue or vaginal secretions associated with sexual arousal) before you begin using the method. These mucus-only rules are also the general rules that you would use in the STM during amenorrhea (though the Kippleys recommend that if you have a mucus patch of only 1 or 2 days, you should be fine if you only wait until P+2).

So... my point is to say that you would be much "safer" waiting to count on charting until you have confirmed ovulation, but if your body doesn't seem like it's planning to get around to ovulating any time soon, you aren't completely serious about trying to avoid, and you want to start relying on charting somewhat, you could make a choice to rely on charting for some of the days as meet your needs. I would caution you about still being pretty conservative with the rules, though, if you are not trying to have a baby. I've known a lot of people who have had unplanned babies due to either not knowing the method well enough or bending the rules or skipping days of observations, and that one unplanned baby is fine, but later, they're in a position where another unplanned baby would be less fine, and it's harder to trust that charting is going to be effective. It's just a lot easier to trust that it works when you see that you don't get pregnant until you TTC, and that when you CTA conservatively, it is very effective.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by infojunkie

Thank you, JMJ. That is very helpful. He is probably nursing so much that I likely am in the "Phase 2" of ecological breastfeeding. The only thing I don't do is actually nap with him in the afternoon (usually) but I do nurse him to sleep. We'll see what happens, I suppose. I do feel disappointed that I didn't even need to have the IUD placed at all. Seems like overkill since we've basically been doing ecological breastfeeding all along. Oh well, live and learn.

The "nap with your baby" standard is one of the more criticized standards since a lot of women experience a year or more of amenorrhea without taking a daily nap with their babies, but Sheila Kippley has found that some mothers are very sensitive to not napping, and when a mother experiences an extraordinarily early return of fertility, usually she is not napping with her baby. She defines "nap" rather broadly. Nursing your baby to sleep and then sneaking away as quickly as possible does not count, but laying down and resting for 15-30 minutes without sleeping does count. The good news is (especially since you mentioned previously that you aren't OK with birth control that prevents implantation) that if you are still in breastfeeding amenorrhea, it is unlikely that you ovulated/conceived unknowingly while on birth control.

 

excellent information again, JMJ, you are a wealth of knowledge! The nap thing is interesting to me. Do you know the mechanism that actually sleeping/resting for the baby's nap is supposed to have on suppressing ovulation? That is pretty amazing that the sleeping itself during a nap would have an effect on suppressing fertility separate from any additional suckling. New info for me!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMJ

The "nap with your baby" standard is one of the more criticized standards since a lot of women experience a year or more of amenorrhea without taking a daily nap with their babies, but Sheila Kippley has found that some mothers are very sensitive to not napping, and when a mother experiences an extraordinarily early return of fertility, usually she is not napping with her baby. She defines "nap" rather broadly. Nursing your baby to sleep and then sneaking away as quickly as possible does not count, but laying down and resting for 15-30 minutes without sleeping does count. The good news is (especially since you mentioned previously that you aren't OK with birth control that prevents implantation) that if you are still in breastfeeding amenorrhea, it is unlikely that you ovulated/conceived unknowingly while on birth control.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by infojunkie

excellent information again, JMJ, you are a wealth of knowledge! The nap thing is interesting to me. Do you know the mechanism that actually sleeping/resting for the baby's nap is supposed to have on suppressing ovulation? That is pretty amazing that the sleeping itself during a nap would have an effect on suppressing fertility separate from any additional suckling. New info for me!

An overly exhausted mother may experience an early return of fertility. A daily nap helps to ensure that the mother is healthy and well-rested. This is the same reason why lying down for 15-30 minutes counts as a "nap" because the mother will sleep if she needs it. It's another sign that breastfeeding amenorrhea is a healthy state when it is disrupted by something that is unhealthy. This is true in other ways as well. Obesity can also disrupt breastfeeding amenorrhea.

ETA: I would really recommend both of Sheila Kippley's books on ecological BFing listed in the "Resources" section: "Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing" and "The Seven Standards of Ecological Breastfeeding."

 

I have what is probably a very stupid question, but I am unsure how I should log this. I have been spotting off and on since Saturday. Yesterday it turned red with a few very small clots here and there, but is still not really enough to get onto my pad. Do I still count that as spotting or do I count it as CD1? My body seems to want to start this thing, but keeps starting and stopping it seems. Thanks.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by buterflymomma

I have what is probably a very stupid question, but I am unsure how I should log this. I have been spotting off and on since Saturday. Yesterday it turned red with a few very small clots here and there, but is still not really enough to get onto my pad. Do I still count that as spotting or do I count it as CD1? My body seems to want to start this thing, but keeps starting and stopping it seems. Thanks.

Not a stupid question at all. It sounds like things are pretty confusing. What about today? Did everything stop or continue? If things continue today, I would say yesterday is CD 1. Are you temping? Have you seen a temp drop?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by infojunkie

Thank you, JMJ. That is very helpful. He is probably nursing so much that I likely am in the "Phase 2" of ecological breastfeeding. The only thing I don't do is actually nap with him in the afternoon (usually) but I do nurse him to sleep. We'll see what happens, I suppose. I do feel disappointed that I didn't even need to have the IUD placed at all. Seems like overkill since we've basically been doing ecological breastfeeding all along. Oh well, live and learn.

Yeah, I wasted a good 10 months of bf infertility struggling with various methods of artificial birth control, too. Stupid women's health community and their ignorance about this stuff!

 

JMJ~ I haven't been temping. Should I be? I can start tomorrow morning and see if I have gone below my coverline yet. When I got up this morning it was red, but this last trip to the bathroom revealed the coppery color stuff again. I am sorry I know this may be very TMI, but I am just so confused on what my body is doing. I am wondering if I should call my OB and see if it is normal to have it last this long? With my last m/c I was bleeding within a few hours of spotting. That one was a lot earlier though. This time it has been almost a week of spotting. Things are definitely progressing, but every time I think this is it, it lightens up again.

 

butterflymomma, that's up to you. CD1 is easier to pinpoint if you see a huge temp drop. I know a miscarriage can go on a long time, and a natural miscarriage can take a while to really get going. I'm not sure what's normal with Cytotec. When things do get going, get some extra rest. Keep cayenne and chloryphyll on hand in case of extremely heavy bleeding. Make sure you're getting enough iron and otherwise good nutrition. Take care of yourself.